Cleaning an old double

05 June 2019, 01:51

gunslinger55

Put this here because it may be double rifle specific. My old and somewhat rough bored 470 is a real nightmare to clean. After a couple hours I am giving up. Would like some old rough bore double cleaning tips. I have done several sessions with different techniques and chemicals and while it’s gotten better I can still see big streaks of washed out copper on rifling. Bore is rough so it holds a lot of material I am learning to clean out. Gun shoots pretty good but after a couple shooting sessions takes a huge amount of effort to clean. Any pro tips you can share greatly appreciated

05 June 2019, 03:02

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Put this here because it may be double rifle specific. My old and somewhat rough bored 470 is a real nightmare to clean. After a couple hours I am giving up. Would like some old rough bore double cleaning tips. I have done several sessions with different techniques and chemicals and while it’s gotten better I can still see big streaks of washed out copper on rifling. Bore is rough so it holds a lot of material I am learning to clean out. Gun shoots pretty good but after a couple shooting sessions takes a huge amount of effort to clean. Any pro tips you can share greatly appreciated

A new set of barrels would be my guess!

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05 June 2019, 04:33

gunslinger55

Not gonna happen. Just was wondering if there was a secret method to remove barrel fouling. I guess good old fashioned elbow grease it is

05 June 2019, 05:46

Huvius

I would cork the muzzles and fill ‘er up with Hoppes copper solvent and leave it to soak for a couple days.
That should dissolve much of the copper and whatever is left, well, if it’s still shooting to your satisfaction, then leave it alone.
In this market no low grade or well used double is worth rebarreling IMO.

05 June 2019, 06:13

470Evans

Wipeout foam works great for me.

05 June 2019, 06:26

Redstone

Heck, if it holds ~2-3” (you didn’t say) at 50-60yards I would not worry about it. Just clean til you are tired of it ad call it good.
Huvius’ recommend is what I would do if it really bugs you, followed by a series of scrubs with JB bore paste.

I have seen it on some or other forum that shooting a bunch of cast gas check bullets will get rid of the copper? Never tried it....
- Mike

05 June 2019, 07:36

gunslinger55

Sounds good I tried every method except corking. Gun still shoots acceptably so when I get back from Montana I’ll try that. Anywhere from 1”-3” at 50 with various ammo when I do my part. and when I load for it I’m sure I can get it consitent. Barrels seem worse now that I cleaned it than I originally thought when I bought it (didn’t look close enough) but if it shoots I won’t worry too much.

05 June 2019, 21:50

lee440

Is it primarily copper that is the fouling, or is it carbon/powder fouling that you are having trouble with? I know that I could never get a white patch no matter how much I cleaned my old Rodda, they were always grey. I read in DG Journal that many of the old barrels were of a softer steel than we use nowadays and had a higher lead content for better machinability and that they would never come spotlessly clean.

06 June 2019, 00:54

DuggaBoye

all depends on how clean is clean

KG-12, Wipeout , Electrolytic Copper Removal
All will remove copper down to the steel if used properly
may take several applications

IF the bores are rough-
ie frosted and or pitted
it is more difficult and takes longer
AND fouls more quickly

were it not a DR you could (and some would anyway)
use a polishing compound on your bullets from Tubbs or other sources
at times that smooths moderately rough barrels well

06 June 2019, 12:03

Pondoro

There is a bore cleaning foam called Forrest that is very effective on removing copper, dont know if it is available in the US...it is made in Finland...we scandinavians swear by it..

It is also non-toxic..

06 June 2019, 14:46

Heym SR20

Not a rifle, but I have an old 410 side by side by William Jeffery with very pitted barrels. I give it a good scrub with .303 oil or bore foam and this gets all the crud out of the barrels. A good oiling and then back in the cabinet. I want to fouling out so that it doesn't hold onto moisture and thus cause rust.

Pitted rifle barrels do not make an inaccurate rifle. I know a couple of pitted .222 and .308s that should n't but do shoot little tiny groups, but they do take several shots to settle down again after a deep clean. Key for accuracy is the crowns - make sure they are nice and clean.

If your double shoots both barrels into a clay pigeon sized target at 50 to 60 yards its doing what a double is supposed to do. I would n't try and take all the copper plating out - it's probably smoothing out the bore somewhat.

When you have finished shooting give it a good wipe through to get rid off excess powder fouling and put away.

07 June 2019, 20:09

els

Don't over clean. As long as it shoots ok the cleaning you should do should only be to keep the bore from rusting.

After shooting run two or three soaking wet patches with Ballistol through the bore. Store it muzzle down.

when ready to shoot again wipe the bore with one or two dry patches and shoot away.

10 times as many barrels are worn out by cleaning than by shooting

07 June 2019, 21:25

DuggaBoye

quote:
10 times as many barrels are worn out by "IMPROPER" cleaning than by shooting

as in jointed steel rods,
embedded abrasive debris with aluminum rods
and/or some coated rods,
improper muzzle protection,
leaving heavy ammonia products in the bore
etc

08 June 2019, 04:59

Rusty

As long as my Hollis continues to shoot well, I just use Hoppes and Wipe Out. I try not to use a cleaning rod too often.
Besides, the first thing you do with a new rifle barrel is break it in. Old rifles don’t need to be spotlessly clean!

Rusty
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13 June 2019, 02:41

gunslinger55

Yes primarily copper. Bore has small fractures circling in bore I didn't see when I bought it but did after a good cleaning. I did buy it knowing it was rough but still shoots.

quote:
Originally posted by lee440:
Is it primarily copper that is the fouling, or is it carbon/powder fouling that you are having trouble with? I know that I could never get a white patch no matter how much I cleaned my old Rodda, they were always grey. I read in DG Journal that many of the old barrels were of a softer steel than we use nowadays and had a higher lead content for better machinability and that they would never come spotlessly clean.

13 June 2019, 02:43

gunslinger55

Good advice. I won't go to crazy I guess.

quote:
Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Not a rifle, but I have an old 410 side by side by William Jeffery with very pitted barrels. I give it a good scrub with .303 oil or bore foam and this gets all the crud out of the barrels. A good oiling and then back in the cabinet. I want to fouling out so that it doesn't hold onto moisture and thus cause rust.

Pitted rifle barrels do not make an inaccurate rifle. I know a couple of pitted .222 and .308s that should n't but do shoot little tiny groups, but they do take several shots to settle down again after a deep clean. Key for accuracy is the crowns - make sure they are nice and clean.

If your double shoots both barrels into a clay pigeon sized target at 50 to 60 yards its doing what a double is supposed to do. I would n't try and take all the copper plating out - it's probably smoothing out the bore somewhat.

When you have finished shooting give it a good wipe through to get rid off excess powder fouling and put away.