In DR's is there really much difference in killing power and usefulness between the 9.3x74R and the 450/400?

With the 9.3 (286 @ 2350-2400 or 320 @ 2250-2300) and the 450/400 (400 @ 2050-2100) are there any animals you would not hunt with one but would with the other?

If you have a 9.3 DR, is the next real step up in power something in the 450/470 class?

If the 450/400 does have a significant advantage over the 9.3, does that hold true for a bolt action 375 w/350 @ 2400 ?

Just trying to rationalize my next DR

Good question Azguy. IMHO, the next step up from a 9.3x74R would be a 500/416. Next step up from there would be a 450 x 3 1/4. Having said that, guess which guns I own! I may of course be a bit biased.
Peter.

IMHO, I think a .450/.400 gives one much more flexibility. I think you can hunt anything, even elephant, with the .450/.400 I would not be so keen to tackle something bigger than a buffalo with the 9.3x74R.

AZGuy

I own a 9,3x74R double rifle, a 450/400 3 1/4" double rifle and a 450 No2 double rifle.

I have taken quite a bit of game with them.

I have taken deer and wild pigs with all 3.

Black bear with the 9,3 and the 400.

Two Caribou with the 400.

Two eland and a wildebest with the 450.

Twenty four zebra with the 9,3, one with the 400.

Several smaller African game with the 9,3, including @14 Impala.


Three cape buff with the 450, one with the 400 [my wife took one with the 400 as well] and one with the 9,3.

Five elephant with the 450, one with the 400, and one with the 9,3.

A lion with the 400.

So my following assesment is not biased toward any one calibre, but my observations and feelings after using all three.

My 9,3x74R loads consist of 286gr Softs [Woodleigh and Nosler in Africa] and 286 Woodleigh Solids at @ 2225fps.

The 9,3 is an excellent killer. My longest mshot was a kudu at a little over 300 yards.
My closest a cow elephant at 5 yards.
My cape buff was killed with one shot, Woodleigh Soft, frontal chest at @60 yards. He was down and dead in 40 yards. He is the biggest in body and horn that I have taken.

I do consider the 9,3 [amd the 375 as well] to be on the light side for buff and elephant.

Well handled it will get the job done.

The only hunt I would not want to use it on is hunting bull elephants for ivory, where it might be necessary to take a body shot.

For head shots no problem.

The 450/400.

I consider the 450/400 the best choice in a big bore double for the modern sport hunter.

Mine is now scoped with a S&B 1.25-4 with the Flash dot Reticle. My 400 gr bullets, Woodleigh Softs and solids, go @2200fps.

The 400 has quite a bit less recoil that doubles in the 470 class, they are very plesant to shoot.

My results on all game shot, including bull elephant, cape buff, and lion were excellent.

A 9,3 double, and a 450/400 double, both scoped would make an EXCELLENT pair of rifles for Africa where DG will be taken.

The 450 to 475 class of rifles.

There is no doubt these guns are a bigger hammer than a 450/400, 500/416.

If you can shoot a 450 to 475 like a 22LR, then they are a great choice.

My 450 No2 is my favorite rifle of all time.

On my first Safari my PH called it the Hammer of Thor.

On my all of my 3 Safaris I took the 9,3 and the 450.

On my last Safari my wife "took" the 400 and I used to to take a cape buff, bull elephant and lion, as I wanted to have taken buff and elephant with all 3, and with the scope it was a natural for lion. I used the iron sights for the buff and elephant.

The 450/400 is a big step up from a 9,3 or a 375 IMHO.

I am a big fan of British big bore doubles, however, not long ago I shot the new Heym 450/400 3".

I think it is the BEST choice in a new made double for the modern sport hunter. I would have mine scoped with a Swarovski or S&B [one of the the straight tubed objective models with illuminated reticle] in claw mounts.

IF you can handle a 450, 475 class of double like a 22LR, and plan to shoot a LOT of elephants, then the bigger double would be a better choice.

For most Safari hunters the 450/400 would be a better choice. Especially scoped.

ANYTHING I could do with a scoped 375 H&H bolt rifle I can do better [IMHO] with a 9,3x94R scoped double.

I feel much more comfortable in DG country with the 9,3 double vs. the 375 bolt rifle.

AZGuy what doubles do you have now, and what have you killed with them?

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

...AZGuy what doubles do you have now, and what have you killed with them?

N E 450 No2,

Based on advice from you and several others on this forum and NE, in August of 2007 I acquired a Chapuis 9.3x74R with a pivot mount 1.75x6 Leupold.

With it I have killed elk (257 yards w/scope, one shot), antelope (60+ yards, open sights,one shot), and javelina (140 yards w/scope, hit a little far back and needed a finisher w/45 ACP). I'm thrilled with my 9.3 and it has become my "go to" rifle. Will be hunting elk with it again in Wyoming this fall.

I have not been to Africa YET. Will do so in the next 2-3 years. Buff and Ele will be on the menu, however, I don't see myself shooting a LOT of Ele in my life.... hence the debate. Should I go with my 9.3 DR and a 375 bolt or spend the $$ for a 450/400?

No doubt you can "get er done" with your 9,3 and a 375 H&H as a back up....

But if you really like doubles, and can afford it a 450/400 double [scoped] would be a great choice.

They are a lot of fun for hunting black bear and elk as well.

Also, once you shoot your first elephant you will be hooked for life.

I had rather hunt elephants than anything else.

There is NOTHING else like it.

That is a good scope for the 9,3.

Good shooting as well.

For the price of a 450/400 double you could add another cape buff and 3 or 4 more cow elephants.

Get with in 10 yards and brain them. Nothing like it.

The 9,3 will work just fine.

I too own a 9.3X74R Chapuis and a 450/400 3 inch A. Hollis and Son.
I like both rifles. If given a choice I'd be all over a Heym/Searcy 450/400 3 inch.
Weight to caliber is just about right for me with the 400 Jeffery. It doesn't beat you up!
I'd get either the EAW pivot mounts or proper Claw mounts. I'd get proper 26 inch barrels.

Then I'd start hunt'n, a lot! 300 grain Hawks for pigs and deer and 400 grain Woodleigh or Hornady bullets for the big stuff.

First off, I have no way to compare the 450/400 to the 9.3 or the big stuff, because I have never used one. But that won't stop me!

If the 450/400 has any noticably better "performance" on game it is due solely to its heavier bullet. Both the 9.3 the 450/400 have nominally less muzzle energy than a 375.

The 375 derives its good reputation from its excellent penetration. And in most circumstances the difference between the three will probably not be decernible.

But when things go south the bigger bullet of the 450/400 (because of its greater momentum) probably will make a difference. If a brain shot on an elephant is screwed up with a 9.3 it pretty much as zero effect. If I ever try to ding another elephant, I would never use a 9.3 (again).

It is just a fact of life that it takes about 5,000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy and a heavy bullet (400 and above) to have much effect on an elephant, at least to turn or knock them down. I would be comfortable carrying a lightweight 450/400 as long as the bigger gun is close by.

So if you need justification, a 9.3 is good for practice and plinking, but a 450/400 could save your life.

At least temporarily.

AZguy,all good advice, but as in any discussion, some is better than others!

IMO, and it is only my opinion, if I had to have only two double rifles to hunt everything, it would be a pair of "LIKE" side by side double rifles, chambered for 9.3X74R, or 375H&H flanged, and a 450/400NE 3", both scoped with a quality scope with a lighted center post & crosshair reticle quality QD rings & bases, both with two triggers, and both with manual safeties, and I can live with or without ejectors.

I have several doubles, and my field pair now is a pair of Merkels! One a 9.3X74R mod 140E, and the other a safari Mod 140-2 470NE. I would mush rather have the 450/400NE 3" for the Safari mod, than the 470NE in that same rifle!

Like Tony, the 9.3X74R for about 90% of my hunting, and though the 470NE has a little better killing power with margenal shots, than the 450/400NE 3" I would, personally, much rather have the 450/400NE 3", and the Heym is a very nice rifle in that chambering. I shot the same Heym rifle Tony did a while back, and it is certainly very accurate, and was ballanced perfectly, and fit me well! I'm lusting for that rifle as we speak!

I have .450/.400 NE and several 9.3 X 62. I will say unequivocally that that the .450/400 has greater killing power.

As in the above post, the .450/.400 NE is superior for elephant on body shots vs. the 9.3, as I have taken elephant in such a manner in Cameroon.

I've used both for buffalo with good results, but the NE really anchors them. The 400 grain bullet is just far more substantial than the 250-286 of the 9.3.

I second the recommendation for the Searcy. If you love to hunt Africa, you just have to do it once with a double rifle.

I can't believe some of the stuff I read here...The 450-400 is away and beyond more powderful than the 9.3x74. For one thing the cross section and thats important on the big animals..then the bullet weight is much more.

I like the 9.3x74, its a neat little double but its no 450-400 and I don't think it compares to the 375 flanged very well either.

AZGuy,

Here is my take on the "situation" you are in. I hope this will help you rationalize your next double rifle.

Save your coins and buy one of each)) Shoot the mess out of both and sell the one you dont like. Remember one can never have too many double rifles so Im sure you will end up keeping both))

The only charge for such good advice is to let me shot two or three boxes of shells out of each double.

Corbin

I agree with Ray. I disagree with Ray.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I can't believe some of the stuff I read here...The 450-400 is away and beyond more powderful than the 9.3x74. For one thing the cross section and thats important on the big animals..then the bullet weight is much more.

I like the 9.3x74, its a neat little double but its no 450-400 and I don't think it compares to the 375 flanged very well either.

Ray maybe I missed something, but I don't think anyone with half a brain would think a 9.3X74R could even hold a light for a 450/400NE 3" to run by.


Like you if i had to have one or the other it would be the 450/400 for sure!

However, the two of them make a fine pair that compliment each other! The 375 H&H flanged is a fine cartridge, but is a real bear to find componants for, and you can forget factory ammo. With that in mind, the 9.3X74R is a far easier round to deal with in a double rifle for light game, but can do it in need be, on the bigger stuff!

you will never go wrong to have a 450 straight in your battery. if you want a 9,3 or 375 h&h too that's ok. but the 450 will do anything you will ever ask of it.

the same cannot be said of the recently resurrected 450/400.

??? if it was such a super round why didn't anybody load it for 50 years ???

Mac,

Undoubtedly the 9.3x74R is hell on elk, etc., especially compared to the 270's that most of them are probably taken, but as far as Africa I don't think it is enough gun. It is probably okay for leopard but I'd rather have a 375 H&H and up for lion and definitely for buffalo.

And for elephant the 450/400 might be sufficient in most situations but would be by no means my first choice.

What is forgotten for elephant is my 5000 ft-lb rule ( ) and that requires the 458's, the 470, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
you will never go wrong to have a 450 straight in your battery. if you want a 9,3 or 375 h&h too that's ok. but the 450 will do anything you will ever ask of it.

the same cannot be said of the recently resurrected 450/400.

??? if it was such a super round why didn't anybody load it for 50 years ???

I agree with you TOM on the value of the old 450NE 3 1/4"! It is the cartridge that made the, then called, small bore a winner. But don't sell the 450/400NE 3" down the river too soon! It is a suprizing cartridge, sort of like the old 375 H&H it just seems to do things all out of proportion to it's size. About not loading it for 50 yrs,the 450NE 3 1/4" suffered the same fate, along with damn near every other NE round! The 470NE is about the only one that lived at all, and that was not because it was so much better than any other cartridge, but because there so many doubles chambered for it, and it had a market!

For those who have used both - Is there much of a difference in recoil and killing power (effect on game) btwn the 450/400 and the 450 3 1/4?

ready375

Reference my posts above. Also search ALL of my previous posts.

In short: I consider the 9,3x74R to be the equal of the 375 H&H. Actually I prefer the 9,3x74R double to the 375 H&H bolt rifle for DG.

There is no doubt, that the 450 3 1/4" and the 450 No2 is a bigger hammer than the 450/400.
The 500 Nitro is a bigger hammer than the 450's. ETC...

The question is HOW BIG A HAMMER DO YOU NEED?
How big a hammer can you handle?

IF you plan on shooting a LOT of elephants AND can handle the extra recoil, then a 450 or a 470 double would be a better choice.

However, I can say, that IF, I was given the JOB, of killing EVERY elephant, in ALL of Africa, and had to use a 450/400 I would not hesitate to take the job.

The 450/400, is in my opinion, the best calibre for a double rifle, for the modern sport hunter.

I would have mine scoped with claw mounts.

If you are a double rifle kind of guy, a scoped 9,3x74R and a scoped 450/400 make a PERFECT pair.

If you plan on shooting a LOT of elephants, like JPK and me, then a 450/470 double makes a lot of sense, but, you do give up the BIG advantage of a scoped 450/400 for all round use.

AND IF, you shoot as good as JPK [he will probably not want to admit to this, as he is a .458 freek, and bear in mind that my 450 No2 is my FAVORITE RIFLE OF ALL TIME] and I do, you will probably not be able to tell any difference in YOUR effectiveness between a 450/470 double and a 450/400.

If I was going to buy a NEW made big bore double rifle today, I would contact Chris Sells, and order a Heym 450/400 with a 1-4 S&B with Flash dot Reticle in claw mounts.

A scoped 9,3x74R, and a scoped 450/400 would be a GREAT pair of African hunting rifles.

PS. They have done pretty good in NA for me as well.

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
For those who have used both - Is there much of a difference in recoil and killing power (effect on game) btwn the 450/400 and the 450 3 1/4?

Next year when you go after the big ivory, I would suggest you not make what I consider a mistake of taking too little gun.

Are you planning on taking your 404 or something bigger?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Mac,

Undoubtedly the 9.3x74R is hell on elk, etc., especially compared to the 270's that most of them are probably taken, but as far as Africa I don't think it is enough gun. It is probably okay for leopard but I'd rather have a 375 H&H and up for lion and definitely for buffalo.

And for elephant the 450/400 might be sufficient in most situations but would be by no means my first choice..

Will, I certainly agree with your take on what I would rather have in certain sittuations! If I were going to hunt a lot of elephant, then my choice, for a dedacated double for elephant, would be a good 500NE double rifle. I have a 470NE double rifle, and I don't think it deserves the rep it enjoys. It will do nothing better than a good 450 bore double, and can't equal the 500NE.

If I were hunting nothing bigger, or meaner than cape Buffalo, then I could live with any of the .450 bore double rifles. I am Buffalo hunter, almost to the exclusion of anything else, and the 450/400NE 3" is my choice for buffalo, and I don't think there is a better chambering for a double rifle than a 450/400NE 3" for lion, on bait, tracking, or following up a wounded one. In that case the only thing that will settle the hash is a CNS hit, and a rifle that you can shoot, is the best choice, no matter the chambering, within reason.

What I was refering to, in my post is a pair of double rifles for Africa, would be a 450/400NE 3", and a 9.3X74R, both useing handloads. As 450#2 NE said I woulf rather have a double chambered for 9.3X74R than a bolt rifle chambered for 375 H&H, and I'd rather have a 450/400NE 3" double that either of them, for everything upto, and including buffalo. My pair today is a 9.3X74R double, and a 470NE double. I would rather have the 450/400NE 3" than the 470NE if I had that choice. I can shoot either of them,but I shoot the 450/400 better, and I hve never found the 450/400 lacking! After all we are discussing a pair of double rifles for a client in Africa, and for every hunter wo takes more than one elephant, there will be twenty who will take nothing bigger than a couple of cape buffalo, or an occasional Eland in Africa.

On the 9.3X74R, Gregor Woods, in his book,RIFLES FOR AFRICAsays it is his opinion that a light double rifle chambered for 9.3X74R with heavy for caliber bullets, would be the best rifle to take when following up a wounded lion! I'm not sure I agree with his opinion, but who am I to argue the point with a 50 yr old man who has hunted everything Africa has to offer for his whole life!

I shoot elephants in the brain or heart with solids, so I can't tell much difference in a 450-400 and anyhthing else. I will pick the 450-400 for anything in Africa or planet earth. I realize that the larger calibers may be better but I have made do with the 450-400 and am confident it will continue to serve me well, if not then you guys can write about me and use me for an example on AR until hell freezes over!

That said the 450-3 1/4" is one hell of a fine caliber in a double rifle, but it recoils more. I agree with Mac the 9.3x74 is a great companion rifle, as is the .375 Flanged which is destined for factory production by Hornadys btw...

quote:

On the 9.3X74R, Gregor Woods, in his book,RIFLES FOR AFRICAsays it is his opinion that a light double rifle chambered for 9.3X74R with heavy for caliber bullets, would be the best rifle to take when following up a wounded lion! I'm not sure I agree with his opinion, but who am I to argue the point with a 50 yr old man who has hunted everything Africa has to offer for his whole life!

As you might imagine then, I disagreed with many of Gregor Woods' statements in his book.


I hope I have something bigger if I ever have to follow up a wounded lion.

The arguments could go on forever, but one more ding: I only ever knew one PH that carried a 450/400 (an old, beat up Westley Richards), or anything similar. Everyone else carried one form or other of a 5000 foot-pounder. A good plan in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by AzGuy:

In DR's is there really much difference in killing power and usefulness between the 9.3x74R and the 450/400?

AzGuy:

I have never had a double in either caliber. However, I do have a .404 Jeffery as well as two 9.3X62's and I think the comparisons would be similar. While I love my 9.3's, I think that Ray Atkinson is absolutely correct. The .400's are a real and significant step up in power over the 9.3's. However, I doubt that you could tell much difference between your 9.3X74R and a flanged .375 and Mac is correct, modern ammunition and components are just so much easier to find for the 9.3. I know that you asked about doubles but I think the ideal battery would be a scoped bolt gun in 9.3X62 and a nice double in 450/400 as a compliment to your bolt gun. You could use the bolt gun for your plains game and, with some really good bullets, for lion and even for cape buffalo and use your double in heavy cover or for follow up or, with solids, for really heavy game like elephant. Then, you would have the best of both worlds. Just my two cents.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
??? if it was such a super round why didn't anybody load it for 50 years ???

I guess the only way that you can make your premise work is to base it on a patently false statement?

I understand that you don't like the caliber, Tom, and you're entitled to your opinion, but you've posted the above false statement several times, and doing so again speaks of a profound ignorance of British rifles. Is that your intent?

The .400(s) was always the most popular of the .40+ flanged nitros. More .400s were built than any of the others. As a result, Kynoch loaded it in quantity from the time it was introduced until they discontinued ALL of the flanged nitro calibers in 1972, at which time they all became obsolete for a while. The .450/.400 3" was among the very last large runs in 1972, and ammo from that batch is still relatively easy to find today. As other manufacturers entered the niche in the '80s, the .400 was included, and factory ammunition has been available again for over 20 years now.

Where is this 50 year gap of yours? The .450/.400 wasn't "recently resurrected". It never went away.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Oh yea, one other point.

If you do decide to get a double in 9.3X74R, get a Blaser. They are the best!

(Sorry guys. Just wanted to get Mac's blood pressure up a bit this morning )

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Oh yea, one other point.

If you do decide to get a double in 9.3X74R, get a Blaser. They are the best!

(Sorry guys. Just wanted to get Mac's blood pressure up a bit this morning )

I know I'm too old to do much other than post on a website, but are you trying to give me a coronary?

I corrected it Will do I get an "A" now?

And a corcoronary is doubly bad as a coronary.

This is no country for old men!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
And a corcoronary is doubly bad as a coronary.

Thanks Will, I needed that!

I've never shot a Blaser double, only held one at the DSC. I have shot NE450#2's Blaser and my friend David's Blaser with 375 H&H and 257 Wby barrels. I must say they are the most out-of-the-box accurate rifles I have ever fired!

All Blasers are non-traditional firearms. No one likes change, especially those of us who love Wood/Mauser and traditional Old English style double rifles. Changes do come.

An old Texas Song Writer, Floyd Tillman said it best, "Everything changes, except what you choose to recall."

If I found a deal on a Blaser, I'd buy it.

Anyone please feel free to chime in here, since I am not that familiar with the early history of the 450/400.

In the early days, the popularity of a round had more to do with the popularity of the rifle maker. Many rounds were considered proprietary and were only available from a particular manufacturer (or on license from the maker), while others, like the 470 NE, were released to the trade.

Ammo was a serious issue in the early days, with some calibers getting trashed due to the way the ammunition was made and not necesarily due to its ballistics. Recall that Will's Dad (perhaps Will would like to be referred to as "little p") pretty much trashed the European calibers primarily due to the poor reliability of the ammo.

The selection of a caliber was thus based on the decision to go with a particular make of rifle. In the case of the 450/400, it would be my guess that at least initially, this was available only in Jefferys. And any other maker desiring to offer the caliber would have had to pay Jeffery a license or royalty on rifles made in that caliber. That obviously added to the cost of all other makers but Jeffery (intentionally so), and had the effect of driving sales to Jeffery made rifles. If one did not like the Jeffery, there were other calibers in the same performance bracket that did not add to the cost of a rifle.

Again, I am not sure if Jeffery had sole dibs on the 450/400, but if it did that fact would certainly have had a negative impact on its popularity.

Since I have only Big P to go by, it would indeed be interesting to learn if Jeffery actually designed this out of the blue. He seemed to be quite the innovator of his time.

I suppose that is why the 450/400 3 1/2" came along, just to compete with the Jeffery. I am ashamed to admit that I cannot quote Dad all the time! Have to run to my bedside to get the book.

Little P and proud of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Since I have only Big P to go by, it would indeed be interesting to learn if Jeffery actually designed this out of the blue. He seemed to be quite the innovator of his time.

I suppose that is why the 450/400 3 1/2" came along, just to compete with the Jeffery. I am ashamed to admit that I cannot quote Dad all the time! Have to run to my bedside to get the book.

Little P and proud of it.

Will the 450/400 3 1/4" was a much earlier cartridge, then the 3" Jeffery! The 3 1/4" started life as a black powder cartridge, using a coiled brass case. When it was upgraded to cordite, there were no changes in the chamber and the case was finally drawn brass, but caused problems with the cordite cartridges being used in the old Black powder rifles. In the beginning, the cartridge had a habit of not extracting, or regulating, so Jeffery came out with 400 Jeff, which will not chamber in the 3 1/4" version, and it was never offered in a black powder version.

Only later did the 3 1/4" work out its problems with the ammo, and some of the old black powder rifles were re-proofed for smokeless, then later still, all the new rifles were nitro proofed and regulated for heavier bullets.

One consolation one has when buying a 450/400 rifle, if it is a 450/400NE 3" the rifle is automatically a nitro-proofed rifle! With the 3 1/4" version you need to look it over very well to see what you are buying!

The 450/400NE 3" was the fix for the problems inherent with the 3 1/4" version, not the other way round!

Doesn't the 450/400 3&1/4 have a thinner rim than the 3"?

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Doesn't the 450/400 3&1/4 have a thinner rim than the 3"?

Sure does.

450/400NE 3": "thick rim"
rim thickness 0.065"
rim diameter 0.625"
head diameter 0.548"

450/400NE 3-1/4" (same as the 450NE 3-1/4"): "thin rim"
rim thickness 0.042"
rim diameter 0.624"
head diameter 0.545"

No, you sure can't load the 450/400NE 3" cartridge in to a 450/400NE 3-1/4" rifle. The action won't close. Shoulder differences also prohibit it.

That 450 Nitro Express 3-1/4" "Thin Rim" was the first "Nitro Express" cartridge of all, wasn't it? 1898? That was a very good year in England and Germany.

The old 450 BP cartridge got Cordite and a heavy, 480-grain, jacketed soft and solid bullet.

Alas, the similar true progression from the old BP cartridges of "40-caliber" never happened.
These were .395-caliber Black Powder Cartridges of about 2.5" to 3.5" length.

A partial transition occurred with the 400 Nitro For Black Powder 3-Inch. It had a nickel-jacketed soft with a big,round, lead nose exposed, but it was anemic in weight, only 230 grains. Also the Cordite charge was light, 47 grains and gave 2050 fps.

Thus started the ballistics copied by the 400 Purdey 3" "Light Rifle Express." However that had a .405-caliber/230-grain bullet. This was obviously a bastardization with less sectional density, and the same anemic 2150 ft-lbs-energy.

The true 400 Nitro Express "Aboriginal" was finally born in 2008. It happened yesterday. The rifle is chambered, only 110 years late, a Ruger No.1 400/.395 Nitro Express 3-inch.

This new-old cartridge can also be called the 10.03x75R and can be formed from 9.3x74R brass.

The 400/395NE3" will equal 450/400NE3" ballistics with even less recoil and only 10,000 more PSI.

It will operate at about the same pressure as the 9.3x74R, so that means a very lively little double rifle could combine the light weight of the 9.3x74R with more efficient lethality than the 450/400NE3". The .395 "400NE" has greater sectional density with the same bullet weight and same or greater velocity.

BTW, wasn't the 450/400NE 3-1/4" actually just a copycatting of the "40 Express," the 40-110 Winchester Express? Winchester's original offering in 1886 came with factory-loaded jacketed .403-caliber bullets, and brass that can be formed by necking down 50 Sharps basic 3-1/4" brass.

Ripper,

Wouldn't this just be the same as goosing up a 400 Purdey round? With a new headstamp?

Will,
Absolutely not.
The 400 Purdey 3-Inch Light-In-The-Loafers-Express used a .405-caliber. (This is just one of a dozen names for that Pretender.)
They simply buggered up the .395-caliber 400NFBP3" so they could call it their own.

We are returning the .395-caliber to its rightful seat on the 400 Nitro Express throne.

If you tried to goose one of those Purdey antiques to 400 grains at 2150 fps with the buggered .405" bullet, say bye-bye to the investment.

Modern steels in modern rifles with modern powders and the proper .395-caliber bullets:

330-grainer at 2450 fps
410-grainer at 2150 fps
or
240-grainers at 2150 fps as a light load

Not quite so light in the loafers, eh?
Of course the workhorse Ruger No.1 will easily handle all these loads, and more.

However, Will, you are going to have to decide on the load you want your Searcy double rifle regulated for. Then you can play around with light loads to find one that shoots well enough.
You will probably be able to do that with no filler.

RIP,

How did the foam wads get dragged into this?

Not a Searcy but my Krieghoff 470 lays them in there regardless of what load it shoots, with 500 gr. bullets anyway.

Not trying to deter you but it sure looks like a 400 Purfey to me. By the time you get up to 60Kpsi, with a 9.3x74R case on steroids like you want to do, seems like I could do the same thing with the Purdey case.

But a 7.3 lb. Chapuis double in it or your .400/.395 Wonder Dog is appealing.

Shouldn't the designation be 9.3x74R/.395??