Hello everyone. I am new to this forum so this is my first post. I am also looking to join the world of double rifle owners, but I thought I should get some expert advice first.

It seems I can get a new Merkel 140 AE in .470 NE for $8,500 (Canadian $) here in Canada. What is your opinion of the Merkel in general, and as compared to say a Krieghoff? What about the price? Thanks in advance.

Mate I owned one of these and regrete selling it.For the price it was a fantastic work gun with nice engraving.I don't think you could go wrong

quote:

Originally posted by zhaba:
Mate I owned one of these and regrete selling it.For the price it was a fantastic work gun with nice engraving.I don't think you could go wrong

Bet it was good for your water buffalo!

quote:

Originally posted by Ontario Nimrod:
Hello everyone. I am new to this forum so this is my first post. I am also looking to join the world of double rifle owners, but I thought I should get some expert advice first.

It seems I can get a new Merkel 140 AE in .470 NE for $8,500 (Canadian $) here in Canada. What is your opinion of the Merkel in general, and as compared to say a Krieghoff? What about the price? Thanks in advance.

I own 3 Merkel doubles at present, and they are excellent working doubles, well regulated, reliable, and backed up by worthy staff. You won't go wrong. $8500 US dollars would be a great buy on a new gun. I have a new one for sale at $8999 in .450/400. That's about as good as it gets for a new gun in my area.

Good luck and happy shooting. You'll love it.

Mike

Ontario, welcome aboard. There's enough double rifle expertise (excluding me, for sure!!!) on this site to fill several libraries. You'll learn alot.
I've owned 4 or 5 Merkel DRs, and they're great, no-nonsense working guns. You won't go wrong on it, and that's a great price.

Ontario Nimrod you can't get better advice on the ownership of a product than from those own and use them.

Biebs and Mdstewart are among several here who have owned, and now own Merkel double rifles. I have two Merkel double rifles today,a 470NE, and a 9.3X74R, and have owned several Merkel products over the years and have found zero problem with any of them! IMO they are value for money spent, and $8500 Cd for a new 470NE double is a bargain for sure.

Welcome to Accurate Reloading, and to the DRSS when you get your rifle!

I own 2, a 470 and a 375. Both great guns. I think Merkel's are good value for money.

Ontario,
I got a 500 NE Merkel last year and am happy with it. Tradex also has hornady ammo now and a good selection of reloading componets for the big bores also.

Thanks for the input, guys. Just curious, but do we feel equally positive about the Sabatti Big Five Classic? I understand that their shotguns are nice, but being able to build a quality double shotgun does not automatically mean you know how to build a double DR. They run about $2,000 less than the Merkel so...

Thanks in advance.

Ontario

See the couple of other threads on the Sabatti's on this forum, some feel they can, others, me included will reserve judgement for a while.

Some seem OK but some have had the odd problem
as will be shown on the threads here.

It can be a touchy subject with some on here so beware !!!


For someone who is new to the field, your observation of "I understand that their shotguns are nice, but being able to build a quality double shotgun does not automatically mean you know how to build a double DR." is very astute, especially the last sentence.

If you can afford the extra $2000, go the Merkel.

Ill put it like this if you can save up the 5,000 why not wait a little longer save up some more and get a rifle with better customer support etc you can get Merkels for 8500 new chapius for around 10-11 kreighoffs for 11,500 and VC for 12,500 but its your dime do what you please

And im sure my commernt will get me flamed by the SAB cheerleaders but oh well

quote:

Originally posted by Ontario Nimrod:
Thanks for the input, guys. Just curious, but do we feel equally positive about the Sabatti Big Five Classic? I understand that their shotguns are nice, but being able to build a quality double shotgun does not automatically mean you know how to build a double DR. They run about $2,000 less than the Merkel so...

Thanks in advance.

The verdict is still out on the quality, functionality, and regulation of the Sabbattis. However, what I see as the biggest issues with these guns are not the guns themselves, but the two organizations that deliver them and are supposed to support them; USSG and Cabelas. Neither are stellar in the customer service arena when it comes to guns or knoweledge of guns. Cabelas used to have a couple of real knowledgeable gun people, but they've run them off. It takes more than working behind a gun counter to make one astute to the qualities of a fine gun; and yes, a $5000 purchase should be considered a fine gun. The importer must also be 100% capable of repairing or replacing someones faulty product within a relatively short time frame, without a customer having to go back thru Cabelas. I'm not sure USSG has the ability, knowledge, or desire to get this done regarding Sabbattis.

Customer service and history of excellence has alot to do with a purchase decision of this grandeur. Good luck, you'll make the decision that's best for you. But $8500 for a new Merkel; that's a no brainer, even if you have to borrow some money.

Mike

Hi

I am very early on the learning curve as well.

I looked at the Merkel at Epps a month ago.

The was the first double rilfle to ever have in my hands so I have a related question.

I found (or surprised I guess) that grip seemed small. I don't have big hands but the first thing I thought of was it 'Can i hold onto this thing?'

Any advise or comments welcome.

The price seems pretty good to me.

Keep in touch since I hope to add a double soon.

quote:

Originally posted by ilw:
Hi

I am very early on the learning curve as well.

I looked at the Merkel at Epps a month ago.

The was the first double rilfle to ever have in my hands so I have a related question.

I found (or surprised I guess) that grip seemed small. I don't have big hands but the first thing I thought of was it 'Can i hold onto this thing?'

Any advise or comments welcome.

The price seems pretty good to me.

Keep in touch since I hope to add a double soon.

I didn't realize Epps stocks them. Do you recall the calibre and price? Now I know where I can go to check one out!

quote:

Originally posted by ilw:
Hi

I am very early on the learning curve as well.

I looked at the Merkel at Epps a month ago.

The was the first double rilfle to ever have in my hands so I have a related question.

I found (or surprised I guess) that grip seemed small. I don't have big hands but the first thing I thought of was it 'Can i hold onto this thing?'

Any advise or comments welcome.

The price seems pretty good to me.

Keep in touch since I hope to add a double soon.

ilw , Are you refering to the PISTOL GRIP, or the Fore-end, or both? If you are refering to the pistol grip, I've owned several Merkel products, and I have many other brands as well, and I find no differance in the size of the pistol grip compared to those other brands. If you are refering to the fore-end wood, then you simply are not aware of how a double rifle is to be held! The wood on the fore-end is not there to hold on to, but to cover the fore-iron and/or ejector springs and hammers, and to hold the fore-end latch. The proper way to hold a double rifle while fireing it is with the fore-hand a the muzzle end of the wood, with the fingers wrapped over the barrels. The Merkels have a so-called "SPLINTER" fore-end as do 90% of the best quality Brittish double rifles. The so-called "BEAVER-TAILED' fore-end (an American shotgun inovation)that not only looks out of place on a double rifle, but is an invitation to a broken fore-end wood on a heavy recoiling double rifle.

Hi Mac

Thanks for getting back to me. I was referring to the pistol grip.

So the Merkels grips are'normal size', that is good to know.

I guess I have gotten use to the grip on my Sako which has a little bit of palm swell.

Obviously it isn't a problem.

Thanks for the help.

Nimrod

I looked at a 470 while I was at Epps. I believe they also had a 500 & a 30-06.

The price was right around $10,200.00.

Thanks

I actually got to handle a new .470 NE Merkel today at a gun shop, along with a Blaser in the same calibre. As much as I wanted it to, I'm afraid the Merkel didn't really "grab" me. The wood seemed rather plain, and I really didn't like the sights at all. The engraving seemed nice, but that's not really important to me. It also didn't really "come up" nicely on me.

Although I wasn't there to look at the Blaser, I did so because the clerk wanted to show it to me and I didn't want to be rude. In the end, I was actually more impressed with it than with the Merkel. Certainly the wood was quite a bit nicer (Luxus grade), and the sights were good. It also seemed to aim exactly where I was looking. Having said all that, it was considerably heavier than the Merkel (I don't know the exact weight), and the barrels seemed to be a much heavier contour (and a bit longer). I had to ask what the funny piece of black weather stripping was on the underside of the barrels and I was told that that is where the barrels can be re-regulated. This particular rifle was used, having been to Africa once and having been used to take a buff.

I haven't seen too much talk on Blaser on this forum (other than the odd reference to "a wooden fencepost"), so I wondered what the "word" is on these guns.

Thanks in advance.

quote:

Originally posted by Ontario Nimrod:
I actually got to handle a new .470 NE Merkel today at a gun shop, along with a Blaser in the same calibre. As much as I wanted it to, I'm afraid the Merkel didn't really "grab" me. The wood seemed rather plain, and I really didn't like the sights at all. The engraving seemed nice, but that's not really important to me. It also didn't really "come up" nicely on me.

Although I wasn't there to look at the Blaser, I did so because the clerk wanted to show it to me and I didn't want to be rude. In the end, I was actually more impressed with it than with the Merkel. Certainly the wood was quite a bit nicer (Luxus grade), and the sights were good. It also seemed to aim exactly where I was looking. Having said all that, it was considerably heavier than the Merkel (I don't know the exact weight), and the barrels seemed to be a much heavier contour (and a bit longer). I had to ask what the funny piece of black weather stripping was on the underside of the barrels and I was told that that is where the barrels can be re-regulated. This particular rifle was used, having been to Africa once and having been used to take a buff.

I haven't seen too much talk on Blaser on this forum (other than the odd reference to "a wooden fencepost"), so I wondered what the "word" is on these guns.

Thanks in advance.

As far as the Blaser is concerned, I think the lack of excitement regarding these guns are due to their lack of "traditional" features, or their "odd" newer design features. Most who have owned them have had good reports on their accuracy and quality of workmanship. They're definitely not my cup of tea, but they're made for a reason; there is a demand by a few for these type guns.


Admittedly, the greatest fault with some of Merkel guns across the board is the lack of figure in their wood. The Germans have always been more obsessed with engraving than wood. We have been telling them for 10 years to focus more on the wood; and they're much better now than say 8 years ago.

However, they also understand the importance of a straight grain wood pattern to support the pressure of a DG double. The trick is to find a Merkel with nice figure while still maintaining a primarily straight grain pattern.

I hand select all the Merkel guns I bring into my store, so I know what I'm getting.

I also agree that longer barrels often tend to feel better in the hands, but they also add additonal weight.

The best balanced Merkel DR is the .450/.400 at around 10.2 lbs. However, I think that dollar for dollar, the Merkel is still the best DR on the market. My next choice would be a Searcy, but at nearly double the cost.

I would recommend you take a look at some more Merkels before dismissing them. Many of the older guns had blade front sights instead of small bead. Some like the blade sight; other don't. I prefer the bead front sight myself. The sights can always be easily changed out for a couple hundred bucks. The type sights is definitely not a stopping point in deciding on a Merkel.

Mike

I would pick the Merkel over the Blaser also some Merkel's are extractor and some are ejector, the extractor is usually cheaper, most shooters prefer ejectors but being new to doubles get advice on this.

cheers
Steve

You can get better wood on a Merkel, you just need to ask.

My 470 has normal, good strong wood, my 375H&H has really nice fancy wood.


Interesting that you mention the weight, the Merkels in 470
always seem barrel heavy to me.

.

I have thrtee double rifles, one Merkel and two Sabattis. All are well crafted and function as intended. That being said, for $8500 buy yhr Merkel. I offer this analogy...The Merkel is a "Dodge Powerwagon." The sabattis are "Checy Corvettes." The Merkel has a track record.

Eagle One

NRA Benerfactor Member
SCI Life Member
SASS Life Member
DRSS .45 NE, .375 H&H, .45-70

Selectiing the right gunsmith is every bit as important as selecting the right dentist or physician...

Col Dave Nuss

I've owned neither, but handled both.

As alreadly stated on this forum, Merkles are a tad light or dare I say "under-built" for the .500NE, but is just fine with the other calibers. I didn't like the "old" sight arrangment, the "notch" rear, and the "post or "pillar" front sight. But most of the "new" Merkles I've seen have great sights. Overall, I am very impressed with Merkle.


Blaser, the one I handled pointed naturaly, and fit me very well. I really like the sights on the Blaser, you can actually see your target while "ling-up", neat feture. Rubber ribs, and rust-proof bbl finish, not at all traditional, and hence, not for me. But not bad DRs though.



mdstewart,

Did you get my PM?

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:
I've owned neither, but handled both.

As alreadly stated on this forum, Merkles are a tad light or dare I say "under-built" for the .500NE, but I am very impressed with Merkle.


Blaser, the one I handled pointed naturaly, and fit me very well. I really like the sights on the Blaser, you can actually see your target while "ling-up", neat feture. Not at all traditional, and hence, not for me. But not bad DRs though.



mdstewart,

Did you get my PM?

Got your PM, thanks for the reply. You're still welcome to come by on the 20th. It will still be a good evening.

We're going to be locked in by snow tonight. I'm sure you are too.

Be careful out there and stay warm.

Mike

Ontario have you done a search on this forum for Blaser? I have two threads:
Beauty, Tradition and Technology and this:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...861079441#5861079441

Mine is a 500NE
Peter.

Ontario

Were you looking at Epps?

If so I would echo your comments on the the Merkel.

quote:

Originally posted by ilw:
Ontario

Were you looking at Epps?

If so I would echo your comments on the the Merkel.

Yes, I was. And the Blaser. I gotta say, I was a bit disappointed in the Merkel.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by Ontario Nimrod:
I actually got to handle a new .470 NE Merkel today at a gun shop, along with a Blaser in the same calibre. As much as I wanted it to, I'm afraid the Merkel didn't really "grab" me. The wood seemed rather plain, and I really didn't like the sights at all. The engraving seemed nice, but that's not really important to me. It also didn't really "come up" nicely on me.

Although I wasn't there to look at the Blaser, I did so because the clerk wanted to show it to me and I didn't want to be rude. In the end, I was actually more impressed with it than with the Merkel. Certainly the wood was quite a bit nicer (Luxus grade), and the sights were good. It also seemed to aim exactly where I was looking. Having said all that, it was considerably heavier than the Merkel (I don't know the exact weight), and the barrels seemed to be a much heavier contour (and a bit longer). I had to ask what the funny piece of black weather stripping was on the underside of the barrels and I was told that that is where the barrels can be re-regulated. This particular rifle was used, having been to Africa once and having been used to take a buff.

I haven't seen too much talk on Blaser on this forum (other than the odd reference to "a wooden fencepost"), so I wondered what the "word" is on these guns.

Thanks in advance.

As far as the Blaser is concerned, I think the lack of excitement regarding these guns are due to their lack of "traditional" features, or their "odd" newer design features. Most who have owned them have had good reports on their accuracy and quality of workmanship. They're definitely not my cup of tea, but they're made for a reason; there is a demand by a few for these type guns.

I would recommend you take a look at some more Merkels before dismissing them. Many of the older guns had blade front sights instead of small bead. Some like the blade sight; other don't. I prefer the bead front sight myself. The sights can always be easily changed out for a couple hundred bucks. The type sights is definitely not a stopping point in deciding on a Merkel.

Mike

Can you elaborate as to these traditional vs. odd features?

I would certainly like to look at some more Merkels. Unfortunately, doubles are not very common north of the 49th parallel, and the opportunities to handle/fire them even less common.

I have owned 4 Merkels and they all shot great (2 in 470, 1 in 9.3X74R and a 500NE) and a Searcy in 470. I sold the newer Merkel in 470 with the bead front and kept my older 470 with the blade front. The Merkels fit me without any adjustments. I looked at a Blaser at the NRA convention and was just not impressed with it at all--fit, feel or looks. To be fair though, I have not shot a Blaser.

Ontario, the "traditionalists" do not like the manual cocking feature on the Blaser. They don't like it on the Krieghoff either, but, the Blaser must be recocked each time the gun is "opened" while the K gun, if cocked, remains cocked. The cocking feature is heavier than just slipping the safety off.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Ontario Nimrod:

Can you elaborate as to these traditional vs. odd features?

OM,

I have owned 2 blaser S2s. One in 500/416, the second in 470. A few of the features on the blasers that I found odd were the plastic strip in between the barrels, the over bite on top of the cartridges, and the pipe shaped barrels.

The largest disconnect IMO is the pipe barrels. They do not taper from back to front, rather have a very boxy look and feel. Not so noticeable in the 416, but the 470 felt like a railroad tie in my hands. Traditional doubles work to balance the weight in between the hands. The S2 is decidedly front heavy.

The other feature which is unique to the S2 is the barrel overbite. You cannot get at the empty cartridge from the top. you must remove them, if using fingers, from the side or bottom. Defies the natural motion. And without ejectors, you have to practice tipping the rifle over and have the empties fall out.

In general, the S2 did not balance well for me. The good news is it does kill elephants, dead.

Cheers

The "tubes" you see on the Blaser S2 are not actually the barrels, but are indeed tubes. Blaser engineers determined that accuracy suffered in a typical DR as the barrels were attached, and therefore affected each other with the heat generated through firing them. Their solution was to encase the barrels in tubes to prevent them contacting each other. In German engineering, function definitely takes precedence over form (or looks). Might be ok in most applications, but they failed to realize the importance that traditional looks and feel have in the marketability of a double rifle.

Biebs, don't you be bashin the S2 now!

quote:

The good news is it does kill elephants, dead.

Phew! That's a relief. No one had mentioned that in previous discussions about the Blaser and I was planning to use mine for just that purpose!
Peter.