I drove over to Aaron Little's new shop in East Texas today to pick up my Simson Suhl .405 WCF double and the regulation targets. This was the final target, a right and left and another right and left in a one inch square
Now this rifle is compatible with Hornady factory ammo and with my trove of .405 hand loads for my 1895 .405.
Good regulation and good shooting by Aaron! His thumb in picture. 50 yards range.



Scope was used to minimize aiming errors:



Must go to the range to see if I can shoot as straight as Aaron. Will report if my results are not too embarrassing.

What did you have it re-regulated for?

The gun maker made it for his own use in 2014, but never hunted with it. He hand loaded 300 grain hornady spire points at 2100 fps. All my .405 handloads are close to Hornady factory ammo velocity of 2225-2250 fps and shoot to the same point of aim. At the same time I wanted the rifle to group better.
I wanted the double regulated with the factory ammo so I could use my hand loads in either the double or my Winchester 1895.
As the target shows Aaron has it right on.

My 1895 also shoots 400 grain loads well and I plan to load some woodies to around 2050 fps as a start and see at which velocity the two barrels shoot close enough groups for hunting.

Aaron is a good egg! He does great work...

505ED,
Agreed on both counts.
His new "back in the woods" digs are good; improved shop and he can test fire on his own property. All good.

I assume that the target is for 50 yards? It is an excellent group.

I am pleased that "Bob the DR builder" sold you his .405 before his untimely death.

Where is his shop?

Transvaal - yes range was 50 yards and thank you for pointing that out. I have updated the post.

I am pleased that "Bob the DR builder" sold you his .405 before his untimely death.
Indeed - Bob was a nice guy and we had become email buddies - he was well versed in his trade.

Gatagordo - about 15 miles east of Mineola. his property entrance and most of the other entrances is not easy to see due to the trees.
He had to come out on the road to flag me down - my car Nav system was also confused -

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Transvaal - yes range was 50 yards and thank you for pointing that out. I have updated the post.

I am pleased that "Bob the DR builder" sold you his .405 before his untimely death.
Indeed - Bob was a nice guy and we had become email buddies - he was well versed in his trade.

Gatagordo - about 15 miles east of Mineola. his property entrance and most of the other entrances is not easy to see due to the trees.
He had to come out on the road to flag me down - my car Nav system was also confused -

Aaron should put a sign at his entrance, and post a picture of his entrance, and a map with roads and mileage here on AR. I have a couple jobs for him if I can find him. A map coordinates at his gate would also be helpful. I live South of Fort Worth so it is a little more of a trip than Newark was. A phone number would be useful as well!

Aaron does good work, and I'm glad to find he is now open in his new shop!

....................................................................

Thank you Sir. If you could take the rifle to 2050 safely and accurate ply you would be on the noise for Hornaday's 450/400.

Lheym500,
I have 400 grain loads that reach nearly 2100 fps in my 1895 .405 and have starter level 400 grain loads at 2020 already in my double(I canged to N133 to lower pressures and am working up to a speed that regulates well). When I get back to that project, I will post a new thread .
Meanwhile, I plan to first hit the range and then go shoot some Texas exotics.

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Lheym500,
I have 400 grain loads that reach nearly 2100 fps in my 1895 .405 and have starter level 400 grain loads at 2020 already in my double(I canged to N133 to lower pressures and am working up to a speed that regulates well). When I get back to that project, I will post a new thread .
Meanwhile, I plan to first hit the range and then go shoot some Texas exotics.

Cool! Your hog gun sounds more like a buffalo gun to me. Can't wait to see where you two take each other. Gorgeous, slim rifle by the way.

I hope he was not hit by the tornados in that area yesterday.

Aaron is fine...checked on him last evening when I'd heard about the tornado in Canton.

Mark

Thanks to all who checked up on us. We did have a storm with rotation come very close to us, thankfully by that time the cold fronts arrival weakened the storms. The serious stuff was all about 30miles west of us. Some serious damage!

Aaron,
My Android smart phone located your FM778 address on the first try AND it says you live in Hawkins, not Mineola!

News to you?

Depends on the app one uses. Deed says it's Mineola. State says it's Mineola. I pay Hawkins school taxes. A small percentage of mail gets sent back because we don't exist. I took delivery of something from the UK but have had people in TX mail me stuff without success...rural living. Need a PO box!

Final post on this subject by me.
I shot the rifle at the range yesterday and my first right and left were exactly like the regulation target - a few inches high and a tad (1/2 inch) to the left.
With some scope adjustments and a few more rounds and all shots are in the bulls eye at 50 yards.
I plan to stop plinking and go hunting Nilgai.

Cool, good caliber pushing the 450-400 and with that kind of accuracy, it should make a buffalo killer..

I don't get it. If 400gr bullets in a .405 double can be driven at 2020fps, are they still safe in hot weather? If yes, what is the point of the massive .450/.400, which Hornady only loads about 40fps faster.

Very perceptive question Sambar Man. Velocity = that of the 450/400 was one of my objectives.

The actual velocity of the Woodleigh 400 grain bullets from the 1895 24 inch barrel was 2076 or thereabouts using TAC. The pressure was 49000 psi. The 1895 is safe for over 50,000 psi, but since that project was successfully completed, I have moved on to powders that match the TAC velocity at lower peak pressures.

I live and hunt mostly in Texas where hot weather is common and have never had a problem with heat affecting any ammo.

Very interesting, CR! I knew the Marlin could take some pressure but not that much or that powders existed that could give the same velocities in db rifles at pressures they could take.

Apologies - not a Marlin(no habla Marlin), but a Miroku/Winchester 1895 .405 WCF.



Sorry to mislead with inadequate information.

Mr. Helton: Not that I would do this anytime soon, but could one throat a non takedown Jap/WIN 1895 to take a 400 grain bullet at those velocities.

I wish Doug Trumbull would do this and make it mainstream as I prefer a 40 cal, 400 grain,4000 foot pounds more or less, straight walled cartridge than a 475 cal, 400 grain, 4000 foot pounds more or less, bottle neck cartridge. I think the latter is more balanced, but I am weird.

Mr. Sambar: With the Horaday 450/400 3 inch load, I think you are running into two things:
1: They wanted to bring a class safari cartidge back for the Ruger No1. Of course, there are a lot, relative speaking,of 450/400 3 inch doubles out there that with a 55 grain cordite proof (most common in the 450/400 3 inch) the hornaday load/velocity duplicates for regulation purposes. So, that regulation with older rifles is why they chose 2050 fps, even though with powders today they could have got more for speed for equal pressure.

2: To keep pressures down the British used big cases by today's standards for same velocity. Also, coordinate is not a powder but looks like strands of spaghetti. So, longer cases were needed to accommodate cordite.

I figure you already know this, but that was my attempt to answer your question. It was not my intention to talk down to your or insult your knowledge.

My Winchester/Miroku 1895 TD .405 has had the chamber lengthened by a local gunsmith to accommodate the 400 grain Woodleigh crimped on the cannelure. The load I took to Africa velocity was 2076 and pressure was 48,900psi; unpleasant recoil off the bench, but no problem standing up shooting off hand.

Sorry CR, you didn't mention Marlin - I just saw the 1895 and jumped to conclusions.

Yes, LHeym500, quite right. The Hornady .450/.400 is obviously a tropical load that leaves the calibre a little lacking compared with most DG calibres. Trouble is that's what my Heym is regulated with.

I want a 405 win double bad just have not tried to build one yet .That's an awesome classic caliber Teddy Roosevelt and Osa Johnson shot the crap out of stuff with their 1895 with it !

"I want a 405 win double bad just have not tried to build one yet."

At the DSC show recently, the Sabatti rep told they would gladly build a .405 double for me. Then when I followed up after the show, no response.
So, when I found one made in the USA, I bought it.
The action is a Simson, custom barrels are by McGowen, and stock by Brian Dudley. So, it should be simple for you to make.
Looking forward to seeing yours.

Darn, Charles, wish I had seen this thread before Photobucket pulled the rug out from under a bunch of us.

quote:

The language of God is science.

Amen Brother.

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Lheym500,
I have 400 grain loads that reach nearly 2100 fps in my 1895 .405 and have starter level 400 grain loads at 2020 already in my double(I canged to N133 to lower pressures and am working up to a speed that regulates well). When I get back to that project, I will post a new thread .
Meanwhile, I plan to first hit the range and then go shoot some Texas exotics.

CR - The link below takes you to a table of loads I worked up with various .411" bullets in my .405 wildcat cartridge. I, too, used one of McGowen's .405 barrels. I think any of the highest loads I listed should be middle of the road loads in the .405 Winchester. Maybe this will save you some time.

Loads for the .405 Grenadier in Mosin Nagant rifle

Grenadier,
Thanks for the offer, but I am only a grain or so of N133 powder away from 2050 fps now and have load data from my 1895 .405 to move forward.

I tried to look at the data you offered, but the accursed PB message blocked me.