Federal disclosed some time ago that it uses (or at least then used) RL-15 in its .470 NE factory loads.

Graeme Wright confirmed it with them and pulled a bullet from a factory round and weighed the charge at 87 grains.

Federal also do not use a filler and use a special 216 primer that is not commercially available.

Does anyone know what powder or primer Hornady use in their .470 or other Nitro Express factory loads?

I have no clue but RL 15 has worked in every double I’ve had and loaded from 450/400 on up. Smaller than that I would say only 50% have regulated.

Recently been playing with some Varget in a 577 that shows promise and RL 15.5 in a 450 Nitro that works fine as well. What RL15 I have left I’m keeping for a couple doubles that shoot excellent with it.

So I’m just starting to figure out some other powders close to RL 15 as it does not sound like Alliant will be producing any powder for the civilian market for some time.

I’ve loaded the various 4831’s over the years and had pretty good luck but the increased recoil is a turn off.

The best regulating load for 470 is 106 grs of IMR 4831 and a Federal 215.
In all the pressure testing Michael and I did I never liked Varget in doubles. Pressures were always higher and it was finicky. RL-15 is a great powder for most double rifle cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
The best regulating load for 470 is 106 grs of IMR 4831 and a Federal 215.
In all the pressure testing Michael and I did I never liked Varget in doubles. Pressures were always higher and it was finicky. RL-15 is a great powder for most double rifle cartridges.

Hey that’s good to know. Thanks Sam, did you ever try any 3031? I know it’s referenced in many books as a suitable replacement for cordite. Just seems very fast to me.

Thanks, gents.

RL-15 with a Kynoch foam filler and a Federal 215 primer does seem to be one of the best handloads in the .470.

Less powder and therefore less recoil than loads using IMR 4831, which as srose has said is also a fine powder for NE rounds and regulates well in the .470 in particular. It just takes more of it to get the job done.

Several sources I've seen, including Wright, indicate that Norma 203B is the same as (or at least can be substituted 1:1 for) RL-15. I have not done that (yet) but do have some Norma 203B on hand for when I run out of RL-15. These same sources indicate that Norma MRP is the same as RL-22 and Norma 204 is the same as IMR 4350.

The formula that I’ve seen for using RL-15 in the Nitro Express double rifle calibers is to multiply the cordite charge, which in the .470 is 75 grains, by 1.19 to get the charge of RL-15 that will yield the right velocity to regulate.

That would be 89.2 grains of RL-15. Interesting that the load Wright pulled and weighed from a factory Federal round was 87 grains.

I and others have found RL-15 to vary from lot to lot. In my case, enough to require the load to be either reduced or increased by up to 5 grains. So, with a new lot (or I suppose when switching to Norma 203B), backing off by at least that much, and working up if and as needed, would be the way to go.

I bet RL-17 would also be a good powder for the .470.

I am curious about Hornady because it's being used by some makers, including Heym, for regulating their double rifles these days. I just can't seem to find any data out there.

I may have to take a Hornady factory load apart and see what I can see.

Of course, at $10 a round, I'll want to put it back together again afterwards.

While pulling bullets from factory loaded cartridges, eyeballing and weighing the powder charge can sometimes be a worthwhile exercise, have to keep in mind that ammunition manufacturers buy bulk powders and load each batch to give the required ballistics they want for their ammunition.
Hence the reason why the actual powder charges found in factory ammunition can vary between different lots of ammunition and between what the companies may publish for reloading. Canister powder used by reloaders can vary slightly from lot to lot but is generally held to closer tolerances than the bulk powder so reloaders can safely apply the same charge weight of the same powder over years of reloading.

IMR 3031 was the old standard grain for grain replacement for Cordite. It worked but would get a little finicky. I've used it but really didn't like it as much as IMR 4831 or RL-15. I have used RL-12 which is very similar in burn rate to IMR 3031 and it worked really well. That powder sadly has gone the way of the Dodo bird. I'm still hoarding about 20 lbs of it.
Back when Michael458 and I were pressure testing lots of loads for double rifles we found a lot of good loads with many different powders. That data may still be in the "Double Rifle Bullet Of The Future" thread.

Thank you Michael and Sam. And yes Michael I agree on the lot to lot discrepency on RL 15. A decade or so ago I ran out of one lot for my 470, the new lot I bought needed 4 grains less for the same speed and it regulated just as good before.

If I am buying powder for a double I like to buy a minimum of three 8lb jugs of the same lot.

I bought big into RL15.5 recently after doing some testing since my reserves of RL15 is dwindling quickly.

I do not know what powder Hornady use, but I get 2170fps out of 23,5" barrels on my .470 Krieghoff with Hornady DGX bonded factory..that is 5200 footpounds. This ammo flattened an old dagga boy last year..

We load .470 with Vithavuori N150...almost identical to RL15, 90 grains and Federal 215 primer give 2120fps out of the mentioned Krieghoff, no wad used. Recoil is moderate..

Hornady suffers the same powder supply as the rest of us. Last time I checked, they were using H4831 in the factory 450-400 loads. That regulated fine in my Kriegoff but recoiled noticeably more than the RL-15 that I use in my handloads.