Anyone out there have a double rifle chambered for 500-450#1 Express cartridge?

What I would like to have is a list of loads that have worked well to regulate with both black powder, smokeless powder and with a duplex black powder with a small amount of fast burning smokeless on the primer.

I had some data from an article done by Ross Siefried (spl?) but have misplaced it. I have a Westley Richerds hammerless, selective ejector 28 inch barrels. It has Metford rifling and so needs paper patched bullets.

Any thing someone may have will help, I take full responsibility for my use of any loads offered!

This is a beautiful old double sold out of the London store in 1892 and deserves to be hunted!

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How long is the case?
If it is the 3 1/4", then 45-48 grains of IMR 4198 is a good place to start. Bullet is 350 grains.
Cal

The 3 1/4" case was the 500/450 Magnum.

The #1 Experss was just a touch short of 2 3/4"

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
How long is the case?
If it is the 3 1/4", then 45-48 grains of IMR 4198 is a good place to start. Bullet is 350 grains.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
The 3 1/4" case was the 500/450 Magnum.

The #1 Experss was just a touch short of 2 3/4"

Cal Mike is correct the case is 2.75 “bottle necked !

I have to make the cases from 475#2 NE cases by shortening to 2.75” and form, then thin the rim to .062 “ and turn the rim dia down to .660. Case volume is 121.92 grs of water.

This cartridge is a black powder cartridge and as far as I know it was never offered in a Nitro for black form.

The only smokeless load I can find is 42 grs of IMR3031 with a 300 gr lead paper patched bullet. This load is from page 673 in The Handloader’s Manual Of Cartridge Conversions! That load seems a little risky to me, but maybe not!

In Graeme Wright’s Shooting The British Double Rfile 110 grs of black powder with a 310 gr lead bullet, as the original load for that cartridge.

The rifle is a beautiful double and I need to get it out in the field and do a little deer , and pig hunting with it.

Thanks guys for taking the time to reply!
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Mac, here's a thread from NE that might help.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=0&page=0#Post110096

Thanks Mike, I saved that thread to WORD for future use!


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MAC:
Generally speaking, IMR 4198 can be used at the ratio of 40% of the black powder charge for approximate velocity and regulation (with the same bullet weight, of course).
Cal

Mac, I dug up an old reprint of a Guns Digest unknown year that lists a load for you. "Smokeless Loads for double rifles" by Ray Marriage and Dick Vogt as told to Bert Popowski.

It shows 43 grains od 3031 one wad,case full of 'wheatina' and a 300 grain bullet.

Better look again! That rifle in the link is a 2.75 also.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Mac, I dug up an old reprint of a Guns Digest unknown year that lists a load for you. "Smokeless Loads for double rifles" by Ray Marriage and Dick Vogt as told to Bert Popowski.

It shows 43 grains od 3031 one wad,case full of 'wheatina' and a 300 grain bullet.

Better look again! That rifle in the link is a 2.75 also.

Took a second look at the casts, and you are correct. At first look the casts seemed to be of a more straight case then a bottle necked case and I missed the mouth of the case on the cast.

All good info guys! I've done a ton of handloading for nitro doubles, but precious little for a double with black powder!

Though my WR 500-450#1 express rifle was sold out of the London store in 1892, it seems many years newer than the two rifles shown in the pictures. My rifle has fluid steel barrels, is hammerless box lock with top lever, two under lugs, and a doll's head rib extension with a third bite in the doll's head with selective ejectors, and has bushed strikers, with a wrist sliding safety, that has a blocking bar to avoid the safety being accidently pushed to the fire position.labled SAFE, and LOCKED in enleted in gold. The action is very fine scroll engraved, and came with a side scope mount fastened to the center rib that places the scope over the left barrel. That of course was added later by someone. The base is a slide on dovetail like the old Jaeger (SPL)lever mounts. It also came in it's fitted oak and leather case.

I bought this rifle very cheaply ($2K)because the owner thought the barrels were shot out, because he had never seen Metford rifling and assumed it was simply very worn lands.

As long as I've been messing with computers I have never learned to post pictures to a thread. One of my sons set me up a Photo bucket account, but I don't even know how to access it, much less use it. Computer illiteracy is paralyzing!
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I just received a PM from a member here who pointed me to a smokeless load for the 500-450#1 Express black powder cartridge. The load was copied from another website and I can’t personally recommend that load but I am going to try it under safe conditions. Here is hoping it doesn’t blow my old Westley Richards double rifle up!. The load is shown below from that other website. If it works without problem I will use it for deer and hogs from tree stands, or under 50 yd range if I can get it to regulate with the Metford rifling. Here’s hoping it works. If it doesn’t I will likely use a duplex black powder, with a small amount if fast burning smokeless powder on the primer with filler over the black powder to hold the powder so it can’t move, and mix.

quote:

My double is now regulated for 85gn AR2213sc pushing a 300gn jacketed bullet at 1680fps (according to the gunsmith, as I will only pick the rifle up 2 weeks from today). NO FILLER with this powder! This in a .500/.450 No 1 BPE 2 3/4".