quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Gents, I've sent a lot of lead downrange with the VC in an effort to develop a good hunting load for my VC and of course that matches the factory stuff the rifle is regulated with. Below are my final loads along with a target showing factory groups, all at 50 yards:

Factory softs & solids (point of aim offset due to misaligned chronograph so I had to cheat left in order not to hit same :
DGX 97gr H4831 MV 2070-2120:
I also had good results with Woodleighs and I posted those previously on the 450NE Load revisited thread. I'l just comment it takes about two grains more powder to drive them to equivalent DDGX velocities.

I'll also reiterate that I've settles on velocities 50-25 fps LOWER than what Hornady advertises (2150) as they achieve that with 28" barrels and my VC has 25" barrel length and I just don't want to risk hot loads to get the added 50 fps. jorge

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Guys; any comment on my velocity rationale?

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Guys; any comment on my velocity rationale?

jorge,

You've found your load now quit nessing with it and go kill something!

50 or even 100 FPS isn't going to make a bit of difference on the terminal side of things. Load what you got that is what your rifle likes and go HUNTING!!

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Guys; any comment on my velocity rationale?

jorge,

You've found your load now quit nessing with it and go kill something!

50 or even 100 FPS isn't going to make a bit of difference on the terminal side of things. Load what you got that is what your rifle likes and go HUNTING!!

surestrike,

With all due respect I am going to disagree with you this issue. I believe that the 450 nitro and 458 win using 480 or 500 grain bullets at 2,050 fps are marginal for penetrating to the brain on frontal shots on elephant. Increase the velocity to 2,150 fps and they work very well on that shot. In this case the extra 100 fps seems to make all the difference in the world.

465H&H

quote:

surestrike,

With all due respect I am going to disagree with you this issue. I believe that the 450 nitro and 458 win using 480 or 500 grain bullets at 2,050 fps are marginal for penetrating to the brain on frontal shots on elephant. Increase the velocity to 2,150 fps and they work very well on that shot. In this case the extra 100 fps seems to make all the difference in the world.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
465HH

I have to inject something in about the low velocity penetration, elephant heads, frontal shots. In 2007 I took the current 50 B&M in its final configuration, 2.25 inch case to Zimbabwe for it's first big game outing. At that time I did not have the BBW#13, but was shooting a 510 gr Copper Flat nose Lehigh bullet that JD and I had been working with. Also, at that time I did not have the current load data I have now, so I was only running that bullet at 2060 fps at the muzzle.

Rather proud that the very first animal taken with the 50 B&M was a medium sized bull elephant. It was pitch black dark, we were legal on this and had permits to shoot crop raiders that would cross from the park into the Camp Fire area. I was not allowed to shoot any trophy bulls, so we had to only shoot medium bulls. Pitch black dark, God what fun that was! I could only hear the elephants, there was two of them, I could not see either one of course, nor did I have a real good idea of exactly how far they were. We were in the dry river bottom, they were standing on the bank, us between them and the border fence of the park. As soon as the light hit I had about 2 seconds to find the elephant, pick my shot, and turn it loose. Only shot I had was frontal brain, not much time to study it over either, so I turned it loose, at a later measured 31 yards. Bullet hit perfectly center, drove through the back of the skull and was lost in the body somewhere, not found. But there was a perfect exit out the back of the brain cavity. Now by the time that bullet had traveled 31 yards my estimate is that it was down to 1950 to 1975 fps impact. Still it gave, plenty of penetration without issue.

A couple of days later we caught another similar size bull in the river bottom. Opposite positions now, I am on the river bank, with about 6 ft of elevation. Hit the light, elephant about 40 yards, no brain shot, take the shoulder heart shot. This bullet passed completely through the elephant broadside, exited. He stumbled, nearly went down, but regained his footing, turned to run. By then my second shot entered into the top of the back, angled down through the heart crisscrossing the other bullets path through the heart and exited the front of the chest. This shot measured 7 foot of penetration from entry, to exit. Third shot hit 2 ft further back from the second shot, did not reach the heart, did not exit. When this dance started at 40 yards I estimate the velocity was down to 1925-1950, and by the second shot maybe down to 1900 fps impacts. Seven feet is a right good amount of penetration.

Personally I think anything from 2000-2100 fps with a BBW#13 Solid and one would be just fine. Yes, frontal or side brain. Now I would not take that angled shot you like to take by any stretch, but I would not do that with my 500 MDM and a 550 gr .500 caliber at 2300 fps, or my 500 gr BBW#13 Solid at 2600 fps! I think more depends on the bullet and it's nose profile and other factors, than just velocity alone. Quite a bit more enters into the equation.

Well, that's my 2 cents for what it's worth! It's worth what you paid for it I suppose.

Jorge, shooting 450 Nitro I take it. 480 BBW#13 Solid or 450 BBW#13 Solid for elephants. Will do the job nicely. Buffalo, the NonCons, 450 or 420. For the Nitro the 480 #13 Solid and 450 #13 NonCon are matching bullets. Especially for the 450 Nitro.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Thanks! I'll give the heavy ones (450) a try.

quote:

Michael,

On the angle head shot on elephant all solids in my experience give enough penetration to reach the brain, the big problem as I believe is your concern, is hitting the brain. It isn't difficult, just aim to break the broom stick runnimg between the ear holes at the middle of the head.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Michael,

On the angle head shot on elephant all solids in my experience give enough penetration to reach the brain, the big problem as I believe is your concern, is hitting the brain. It isn't difficult, just aim to break the broom stick runnimg between the ear holes at the middle of the head.

465H&H

OH BS--- I keep looking for that shot and I don't think I can see it! I don't doubt you, I just think you are a better shot than I am! I have hard enough time with simple side brain shots, much less something I gotta think on too much! HEH HEH.........

I do a fair job of hitting them in the ass however! If they are close that ass gets bigger too, I can hit it!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Thanks! I'll give the heavy ones (450) a try.

Jorge--NO---Not the 450s in the 450 Nitro--Work with the 480s, they are designed for the 450 Nitro, you will have no issue getting those to over 2100 or even past equal to what you have now.

The 450s will do the job, you can probably get more velocity as well, but for what you want to do in the Nitro use the 480, that's it's job. It's matching NonCon Hollow POint is the 450 NonCon HP. Buffalo medicine that is! 480 Solid elephant, 450 NonCon buffalo.

M