Double rifle circles are always concerned about the barrels shooting together...how much at what distance, etc. Why doesn't someone make a low power DG scope with dual reticles? If this is too stupid, I apologize in advance.

John, something similar to that idea was used by Kodiak for their muzzleloading double rifles. They had separate open sights for each barrel so the shooter didn't have to worry about regulation. I think the best solution is to have the barrels properly regulated to the same point of aim :-)

The reason no one makes such a scope is that there would be zero demand for them. Because no maker knowingly makes double rifles that are not regulated. Yes, they do turn up, for various reasons.
And many large bore shooters would not want a scope.
I had one of the early Kodiak .58 caliber DRs; it had two sights, but it was well regulated so you only had to use one.
If it were common to make double rifles that were not regulated, it would cut the cost of one in half, and your scope idea would be a good venture for investment.
Now, not so much.

JonP , at the risk of being laughed at

Jon,

The scope would have to be pretty bulky because you would need to have two separate adjustment assemblies to move each reticle.

The whole reason for adouble rifleis to give you two shots in fast succession, especially when used on big game thats mobile - ie cross at being hunted so is coming to stamp on you. You dont have time to aim. You want the shots to go where you look.

The barrels need to converge so that both shots go close together and meet at 50 to 80 yards. Regulation is not that difficult rather it is can be time consuming. I have regulated a couple of doubles with adjustable barrels. Its a half turn here, half turn there.

With the traditional soldered barrels, you use clamps wedges and solder. Barrels too far apart, clamp the barrel, heat till solder flows, pull wedge, tighten clamps, add more solder. Let cool. Shoot again. Repeat.

Doubles are not a long range weapon, and it’s unlikely that both barrels will hit a clay pigeon at much beyond 100m. Its not there job. Its to hit the boiler twice very quickly. Most doubles are accurate and if you know the sights then with one barrel, you can reach out quite a bit further. Many smaller bore over and under doubles and combination guns can easily take roe or fox at 200m.

JonP, regulation of a double rifle is"NOT HARD" as was suggested in answer to your question. That is true as long as the regulator knows what he is doing, but is time and ammo consuming.

Most wh do not know think the regulation is done to make both barres print bullets from both barrels hit the same hole in the target at a given distance. That conception is incorrect, because bullets from both barrels hit the same hole at that distance, would mean the shots were crossing at that distance, and would shoot wider farther down field. The rifle would be useless past that distance.

Some think that because the barrels have to converge to shoot properly the must be used at only short distance, and that is a false thinking.

The reason the barrels must be solder with the proper convergence, is SO THEY WILL SHOOT SIDE BY SIDE at any distance.


To understand this one must know how a pair of barrels soldered together each barrel, under recoil, will rise, and move away from the other barrel when fired. To regulate this one must control the rise and away movement so that when the bullet leaves the muzzle it will be pointing to where the sights were when the trigger was pulled. This is called "barrel time" The timing so that on exit of the muzzle by the bullet it will be equal to 1/2 the distance between the barrels. To explain this farther when fired the right barrel move up, and to the right, and the left barrel moves up and to left. SO, if regulated properly when the rifle is fired with either barrel it will be pointing right beside the other barrels shot. regulation makes both barrel shoot parallel to each other no mater the distance, so that the only thing the shooter has to do in adjust for range distance for hold over.


When finding a load the speed of the bullet must match the regulation so that the left barrel's group center will be on it's own side of the aiming point and the right barrel hitting on its side on the target with a comingling both barrel will print on the aiming point on the target. the center of each barrel's individual group will be on it's own side by equal distance from the point of aim. Then the rifle is properly regulated.

Having said all this what is needed is proper regulation , so that only one sight is needed to make both barrels shoot where you aim with that sight.

………………..A long winded answer that nobody cares about but never the less true!

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quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
The whole reason for adouble rifleis to give you two shots in fast succession, especially when used on big game thats mobile - ie cross at being hunted so is coming to stamp on you. You dont have time to aim. You want the shots to go where you look.

The barrels need to converge so that both shots go close together and meet at 50 to 80 yards. Regulation is not that difficult rather it is can be time consuming. I have regulated a couple of doubles with adjustable barrels. Its a half turn here, half turn there.

With the traditional soldered barrels, you use clamps wedges and solder. Barrels too far apart, clamp the barrel, heat till solder flows, pull wedge, tighten clamps, add more solder. Let cool. Shoot again. Repeat.

Doubles are not a long range weapon, and it’s unlikely that both barrels will hit a clay pigeon at much beyond 100m. Its not there job. Its to hit the boiler twice very quickly. Most doubles are accurate and if you know the sights then with one barrel, you can reach out quite a bit further. Many smaller bore over and under doubles and combination guns can easily take roe or fox at 200m.

Sorry but there are some very common misconceptions in this.

The barrels should be regulated to shoot parallel to each other at whatever distance. They should not be set to "converge" at a specific distance.

See Mac's statements above for a better explanation.

This business of convergence must be examined more fully as has been discussed previously many times here.

A properly regulated double rifle, with both barrels shooting parallel, will result in each barrel producing its own individual group. The idea is to get the two groups shooting parallel to each other.

Now, if the center of the barrels are set 1 inch apart, the center of each barrel's group should be regulated to be 1 inch apart at any distance. However, lets say the right barrel shoots a 1 inch group at 100 yards and the left barrel shoots a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards. Placing the two groups on top of each other, SOME of the right barrel's holes and SOME of the left barrel's holes will have "crossed" while some will not. But the center of each group should remain 1" apart and Left on Left / Right on Right.

It's these few bullet's within the respective groups that appear to have crossed that led to the misconception that the barrels are "regulated" to cross at some specific distance.

That's the theory anyway. Getting the two barrels to shoot exactly parallel is easier said than done.

quote:

It's these few bullet's within the respective groups that appear to have crossed that led to the misconception that the barrels are "regulated" to cross at some specific distance.

That's the theory anyway. Getting the two barrels to shoot exactly parallel is easier said than done.

…………………………………………………………... ld

The above, in bold, is true! The thing most do not understand is, even in a single barrel rifle it is almost impossible to make all shots from that barrel to hit one hole on the target. SO why would a double rifle be expected to do it.

What one moves in the regulation process is to make the CENTER OF EACH BARRELS GROOP remain on it's own side of the center of the composite of both barrels. Even if the both barrels were shooting one inch groups the left side of the RIGHT BARRELs group would spill over into the right side left barrels group, and vice versa.

This is the reason, a composite group of both barrels , on the target will be sort of an egg shaped group of both barrels with the aiming point on the target in the middle of the composite group of both barrels on the target.


……………….All that is if one can get a perfect regulation, which, as Todd says, and is easier said than done. However a good regulator can get as close as is possible by humans!

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Part of the reason regulation has never been fixed by automatically alternating the sights is that the traditional makers would not want to lose the aura that db rifles are such arcane matters that the whole rifle needs to be made by hand.

My 1983 patent did include a provision for alternating a telescope's zero between shots (by use of two sets of cradles in a B&L type mount on a S/S rifle). Ironically, I see now that delicacy in the mechanism would be the downfall, analogous with my complaints about constantly centred reticles.