Yesterday while looking for something to keep me busy, I decided to load a few 470NE rounds. A guy can never have too much ammo on hand with all the rogue elephants running around Arkansas. Anyhow, lately I have had a very difficult time finding RL -15 in 5 lb cans. To be honest, RL-15 is scarce as hen’s teeth even in 1 lb cans! So I went about my loading with a smile on my face and a pinch of Copenhagen in my lip. 87 grains, a wad of stuffing from my daughters teddy bear (I have always said her generosity plays a very important role in my dangerous game hunting, she has never fully understood what I mean and still willingly allows me to “BORROW†pet teddy when I load ammo). Seating a 500 grain Woodleigh soft point is a thing of beauty…you just have to love loading ammo that looks like a fine cigar once complete. Eventually the current can of powder ran empty. No problem I have a one lb can left. Switching to the new lot of bang juice is as simple as dumping the new, and going about your business right?
Wrong!

I was amazed to find that the new lot of powder weighed just over 85 grains for the same amount of volume. Houston, we have a problem! There must be something wrong with the scale right?

Nope!

I better pull a few loads from the old lot and make sure they are not short on powder.

Nope…they are all spot on at 87 grains.

Sooo….What now?

I guess I will wait until I can get my hands on another 5 lb keg of RL-15 so I can go through the process of load development again. I will save the 1 lb can for my bolt trash!

I know Mark (400nitro) always talks about the necessity to start from scratch when loading a new lot of powder. I guess I never thought it would be that big of a deal going from lot to lot…now I know different. Maybe I should listen to him about not crimping too? Whoa now…baby steps!

I have read comments that when this happens, typically sticking with the same volume should get one pretty close from lot to lot. If that is the case, then I would need to load 85.2 grains of the new lot to get the same velocity as 87 grains of the old lot. I don’t plan on doing any experimenting to find out but would be curious what others have found.

I hope you all find this as interesting as I did. Now I need to go sew up my daughter’s teddy bear before she gets keen on my gig!

Roscoe

Roscoe, I use RL-15 for loading 3 bolts and a single shot (9.3 thru 416) and have found that this powder almost always shows a relatively large difference between lots. It makes alot of work "re-developing" loads. I recently purchased several 5-lb canisters to eliminate this headache.

As for the teddy bear, I hope it was loaded with a single lot of stuffin or you may have to sample some additional critters from your daughter's collection.

SEE DOC52! Now you won't say I'm full of shit each time I yell at you. Retard.

Every batch of RL-15 I have changed to, requires some adjustment in the load to maintain the required velocity. When I buy RL-15 I usually buy 5, 1-lbs cans.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
SEE DOC52! Now you won't say I'm full of shit each time I yell at you. Retard.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
SEE DOC52! Now you won't say I'm full of shit each time I yell at you. Retard.

Paul, one of these days your dad is going to take a switch to you butt!

I think your creating a non existant problem..it will probably not even change the POI of your rifle..I notice you didn't seem to weigh your "stuffing"...

I loaded both 85 and 87 grs. of RL-15 and 5 grs. of weighed DACRON in my .470 and noticed the same thing between lots of powder. However nothing changed at the range...Both loads went to the same POI and velocity wasn't much different, in fact the 85 and 87 shot to the same POI, and less than 35 FPS difference occured.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
SEE DOC52! Now you won't say I'm full of shit each time I yell at you. Retard.

Paul, one of these days your dad is going to take a switch to you butt!

Yeah, that may be so, but I'm at the point where I can tell him, "do what you want, but I'm picking your retirement home."

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Yeah, that may be so, but I'm at the point where I can tell him, "do what you want, but I'm picking your retirement home."

He's not concerned... he knows there's no retirement home that will accept him.

Sorry, Paul, but you're stuck with him!

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Yeah, that may be so, but I'm at the point where I can tell him, "do what you want, but I'm picking your retirement home."

He's not concerned... he knows there's no retirement home that will accept him.

Sorry, Paul, but you're stuck with him!

Then I'm fucked. FUCK!

FYI,
I'm NOT retiring!

You ought to kick his hind quarters more often so he talks to you a bit nicer Doc!

Roscoe:

That's pretty common. I never load double rifle ammunition by volume, only weight, so I can't help you there. I would reduce and work back up to the same velocity. I always work back up when I have to buy a new lot, so I always buy several cans of the same lot, or a large canister. Less redeveloping that way.

I tried to skip it with one of my doubles just once, and the density difference happened to be particularly bad that time. The same charge with the new lot of the same powder produced 200 fps less velocity, and the barrels printed 4 inches wide at 50 yards. To get back to the same velocity and regulation required a charge increase of 5 grains. I've always been glad that I didn't get those two lots in reverse order, as the result would have been a nasty overload.

I've used the same two powders in my doubles for years, and always redevelop. It's a snap to get back to the same velocity and regulation, but I've never ended up with the same charge weight with different lots of the same powder.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by Doc52:
FYI,
I'm NOT retiring!

Doc, we need to work on your self defense skills. Addressing the retirement comment while remaining silent on the "retard" tag kind of looks like an admission on the latter.

Jim,
Your right, I stand corrected!
I'm NOT retiring, nor am I a retard! How's that? Was that better, or was that over the edge?

Had my first experience with different lots of RL15 this morning. With the old lot I was shooting I was getting between 2050 and 2070 fps with my .500. The new lot was getting around 1950 to 1970 fps. Same load (96 grains) but approximately a 100 fps difference in velocity. Glad I bought four pounds of the new lot. Guess I will have to try with 98 grains to see if I can get back to my old velocity.

Do you see this variation in all brands of powder, or just the Reloader?
I am just starting development as my 470 will be here next week. I will start with IMR 4831, as that is what Butch Searcy regulated it with. I have used both IMR 4831 and Hogden 4831 for years in bolt guns and never noticed a difference from lot to lot...but I have learned here on this forum that doubles are a different world. I would like to hear more???
Thanks, ND

quote:

Originally posted by NitroDave:
Do you see this variation in all brands of powder, or just the Reloader?

All brands. This experience...

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
I tried to skip it with one of my doubles just once, and the density difference happened to be particularly bad that time. The same charge with the new lot of the same powder produced 200 fps less velocity, and the barrels printed 4 inches wide at 50 yards. To get back to the same velocity and regulation required a charge increase of 5 grains. I've always been glad that I didn't get those two lots in reverse order, as the result would have been a nasty overload.

....was with IMR 4350.

With my last batch of RL 15 in my .400, I was using 68 grains for 2,070 to 2,080 fps. Bought a new lot recently, and 70 grains ain't there yet.

There's almost always a difference, but you won't usually notice it in a bolt rifle unless you're shooting over a chronograph. While some doubles can also be insensitive to it, most aren't. When going to a new lot of powder in a double, work back up shooting over a chronograph until you get back to the same velocity as with the old.

quote:

but I have learned here on this forum that doubles are a different world. I would like to hear more???

Probably the most important difference between loading for doubles vs bolt rifles is the approach to monitoring pressure. With the flanged nitros, sure, watch for signs of excessive pressure as usual. Hope that you never see the slightest indication. Once you do, you're way over proof pressure, and you don't want to be there.

Of all the powders on the market which I've used over the last 36 years of reloading (approx. 24 different powders I've used over the years) R-15 has had the greatest variable between lots of powder, it's still one of my favorites and I use it in my 7x57 mauser, Ruger 375, 375 H&H and 500 N.E. caliber rifles. It is truly one of those powders that you chrono, start with low charges and work up every time you change lots of powder.