Blaser, Merkel, K-gun, and possibly others use the cocking lever instead of a safety. Are there differences between the way they work. Is one better than another? If so please explain why you think so.

I'll entertain opinions on the general concept of a cocking lever VS safety; but Im most interested in the differences between the specific types.

Has anyone here personally had a problem because of them? Stories of "Ive heard" are hardly relative without some confirmation.

Merkel: traditional safety

Krieghoff: Cocking device, push the kick spanner forward, shoot, reload, ready to shoot again.

Blaser: Cocking device, push the kick spanner forward, shoot, reload, push the kick spanner forward again. It does not automatically re-cock the hammers.

I own a 470 Nitro Krieghoff and have been very satisfied. I have hunted with it three times in Africa and have fired around 700 rounds through it.

The Blaser is really a PITA. The amount of force needed to recock is pretty stiff and the fact you have to do it EVERY TIME you shoot and no ejectors makes it in my view a non-starter.

That Blaser has to be the dumbest design for a double ever devised. Non-starter indeed!

I think the mechanism on the Blaser bolt rifles and the Krieghoff are excellent. The safest way to carry a rifle without a doubt. In addition, the straight pull bolt on the Blaser is lightening fast. I have no issue with either cocking mechanism (once you fire the rifle remains cocked for the next shot). The Blaser double rifle cocking mechanism is a whole different story.

Let me be sure I understand, on a Blaser DOUBLE RIFLE, do I have to RE-Cock for the SECOND Shot, if I haven't done anything besides shoot the first barrel?

E:

On the Blaser S2 double rifle you cock the triggers, you shoot your buffalo, then maybe you shoot him again.

You re-load.

You re-cock the triggers.

It's a design that makes me wonder what the hell they were thinking.

I have a Merkel now, it is just a regular old safety. I had a Krieghoff and I liked it. With the K gun as Mike said above, you cock the triggers, shoot, reload, and shoot some more if necessary. You could shoot 100 times and never re-cock the triggers. You don't need to re-cock the triggers after breaking the action.

So,

Traditional double rifle safeties = good
Krieghoff 'safety'/cocking device = good
Blaser S2 'safety'/cocking devise = bad

It can be confusing. Blaser uses two different mechanisms, one on the double and one on the bolt rifles. On the double, cock, shoot right and left, open, recock, etc. On the bolt, cock, shoot to you heart's content, until you manually decock, it stays cocked.

On traditional safeties on doubles, they too can be different. Some traditional safeties automatically go back to safe when the rifle is opened, then they have to be taken off safety to fire again. This can usually be disconnected but is not an uncommon feature.

You guys have more experience then me; but it sounds like the Blaser design is similar too an automatic safety on SxS shotguns, in that it engages (goes on safe) each time you open the action. Is that a good analogy?

quote:

Originally posted by EDELWEISS:
You guys have more experience then me; but it sounds like the Blaser design is similar too an automatic safety on SxS shotguns, in that it engages (goes on safe) each time you open the action. Is that a good analogy?

That is the way the Blaser S-2 works, but the big difference is the shotgun RECOCKS the action when it is opened even on one with an automatic safety! The blaser S-2 doesn't recock the rifle's action if opened for ANY REASON!

The fact is the shotgun and the Blaser S-2 are used for intirely different purposes. A shotgun with an auto safety, if forgotten after a re-load only effects poping anothe dove. On the S-2 Blaser, if you fire one or both barrels,and open the rifle to reload or even just to see if it is loaded, this rifle de-cocks it's self and if the target is not down and is getting away, or worse still coming, you certainly better not for get to manually re-cock that rifle before he gets to you, or someone else in your group.

IMO, and the opinion of most double rifle makers even an auto safety is not desirable on a double that is chambered for dangerous game calibers, but to design one that actually de-cocks it's self when opened for any reason is, again IMO, insane!

This makes no more sense than having a bolt rifle that has a safety the puts the rifle on safe every time the bolt is worked, or actually decocks the rifle, and must manually re-cocked before it can be fired???????

...................................

OK, I'm confused. You say that the K gun can be fired, reloaded and fired again w/o touching the safty. So does the K-gun cock on opening the barrels like a traditional double does and the "safety" serves as a decocker or somekind of disconnect?

adamhunter,

Okay with the K-gun, say you have opened the action, loaded a couple of .470s, closed the action. Now you cock the triggers by moving the cocking device (it looks like a big safety) forward. It's too hard to move to do accidently, by the way.

Okay now you shoot your two shots. You break the action, dump the brass, load another two cartridges. Close the action.

Now the triggers are still cocked as long as YOU did not move the cocking device forward, then back. And again, that's not something you could do accidently either.

So YOU have to de-cock the triggers if you want to safe the rifle. It won't do it for you.

When I had my Krieghoff I liked the system. I think it is a good balance between safety and functionality.

quote:

Originally posted by adamhunter:
OK, I'm confused. You say that the K gun can be fired, reloaded and fired again w/o touching the safty. So does the K-gun cock on opening the barrels like a traditional double does and the "safety" serves as a de-cocker or some kind of disconnect?

You are absolutely correct opening the barrels cocks the tumblers only if the rifle has been placed in the safe condition! If the rifle has been fired and the combi-cocking system has not been touched, the rifle re-cocks both tumbler, and springs on opening.

The K-gun when the combi-cocking system is in the de-cocked condition the tumblers are still cocked only the tumbler springs are relaxed.

Now you spot an animal you want to take, the tumblers are already in the cocked position, so when you push the switch forward all the way, this action compresses the tumbler springs, and the rifle is now ready to fire by simply pulling either trigger. YOU fire one or both triggers but do not touch the safety switch when the barrels are opened to be reloaded the action re-cocks both the tumblers, and springs on opening, so that when the rifle is closed the rifle is ready to fire. If further firing is not needed, all that you need do is push the safety lever slightly forward, and releasing it, and this relieves the tumbler springs, making the rifle completely safe to carry loaded.

The Blaser S-2 relieves the tumbler springs automatically when the barrels are opened for any reason, no matter the condition the rifle is in when opened! The only way the rifle is cocked and ready to fire is with the combi-cocking lever, and must be done every time the rifle is opened for any reason. The reason this was done this way was to cut cost, because the system of the K-gun is more expensive to make!

I have zero problem with the K-gun system, and others and do as it suits, but in my opinion, saving a few dollars by buying the S-2 Blaser is asking to get a horn up your butt!

.....................................

PSmith & Mac,
Thanks for the clarifications. I don't have any double experience, but I would agree that the Blaser system does sound like a way to get a horn up your butt since it resets to the de-cocked position after you break it open. One more thing to worry about if a pissed off buff were after me....

quote:

buying the S-2 Blaser is asking to get a horn up your butt!

Does anyone have any idea how often this has happened with a Blaser (double) user?
Peter

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by EDELWEISS:
You guys have more experience then me; but it sounds like the Blaser design is similar too an automatic safety on SxS shotguns, in that it engages (goes on safe) each time you open the action. Is that a good analogy?

That is the way the Blaser S-2 works, but the big difference is the shotgun RECOCKS the action when it is opened even on one with an automatic safety! The blaser S-2 doesn't recock the rifle's action if opened for ANY REASON!

The fact is the shotgun and the Blaser S-2 are used for intirely different purposes. A shotgun with an auto safety, if forgotten after a re-load only effects poping anothe dove. On the S-2 Blaser, if you fire one or both barrels,and open the rifle to reload or even just to see if it is loaded, this rifle de-cocks it's self and if the target is not down and is getting away, or worse still coming, you certainly better not for get to manually re-cock that rifle before he gets to you, or someone else in your group.

IMO, and the opinion of most double rifle makers even an auto safety is not desirable on a double that is chambered for dangerous game calibers, but to design one that actually de-cocks it's self when opened for any reason is, again IMO, insane!

This makes no more sense than having a bolt rifle that has a safety the puts the rifle on safe every time the bolt is worked, or actually decocks the rifle, and must manually re-cocked before it can be fired???????

...................................

Sounds like it was designed by the famous American Engineer -Rube Goldberg

SSR