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Hi all,

I am interested in this caliber rifle and bullet and its totally new to me. I have mailed back and forth with Cal on it looking to maybe add a double in 450/400 to the stable!

Would really welcome and appreciate and thoughts, comments, pictures, stories, advice or heck even BS on this caliber from AR friends and readers that have one, had one or have shot DG with one.

Ammo, bullets (manufacturers), brass and reloading too !

I have a .470 double, a .416 bolt and a .375 double. I am not looking to discard any of them but rather add to.

Any thoughts / comments you can share?

Cheers

Charlie

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A good friend of mine has a very nice Gibbs boxlock ejector chambered for this cartridge. It weighs in at 10 pounds spot-on with 26" barrels. Recoil is almost non-existent and it shoots snake-eyes at 50m with 400-grain Woodleigh's, Federal 215's and South African S-385 propellant. He uses Hornady brass, of which he has a considerable stock.

One potential issue with the .450/400's is bore diameter. Slugging the barrels is a must but once that has been done things are easy to sort out. Another issue, which may not be an issue for all, is that many of the earlier.450/400's were made on .470-size actions and can be rather heavy. Find one on a smaller-size action and you have a delightful rifle. Another friend owns a Watson Bros .450/400 3" on a dedicated .450/400-size action and it is a delight. Ejectors, 24" barrels, Harry Kell engraving, just over 9 pounds, etc.

In my experience both of the .450/400's are relatively easy to sort out from a reloading point of view. The cartridge is also more than just usable for dangerous game. Excellent, in fact.

I use 69 1/2 grains of RL15, backer rod, CCI Magnum Primers and that is all there is to this. A slight taper crimp but nothing more.

I have owned 6 or so in this caliber and am having another BPE set of Pac-Nor barrels put on a 16 bore action by Aaron Little. Love the caliber. My current nitro 450-400 3 1/4 is going to Zim in 2018 for ele.

You'll love shooting this caliber. Cal is a good source for your questions or putting you on to a rifle.

A real classic. Possible the most widely used double caliber for DG.

Corbet had one - might have been a BP. JA Hunter & Pondoro Taylor used one often.

I shot Sam's Webley made London Sporting Park rifle & was surprised at how easy it was to shoot. I even managed to hit a clay bird on the bank at 25 yards.

My first DR was a Rigby 450/400 and while I thought myself being the "cat's whiskers" in owning/shooting what I thought was the real deal DR for Big Game was short-lived when I realized it grossly lacking in terms of stopping power (oops, wait for it!).

You already have the .470 which is considered as the most popularly used by most PHs and general DG hinters though once handled in a situation, the .500 has the edge without being wicked on the shooter (Shootaway will testify to that).

I guess it would be OK to have one as part of a DR collection or for boar hunting, seeing Tigers are off the menu but not what I would recommend as a caliber for serious DG hunting, reason why MS would shy from even looking at one.

I wish to correct myself on my previous post to read 450/400 Joseph Lang and not Rigby. My second DR was a 450 Rigby which was a little more acceptable but still not enough.

There are a number of doubles in .450-400 3 1/4" right now for very reasonable prices. Shoot me a pm if you want to check out the ones I have seen.

If looking at the 3 1/4 inch case, be careful about the rifle being proofed for full nitro. The 3 inch Jeffery case does not have this concern. Th 3 inch Jeffery case was always a full nitro/cordiate round.

If Cal is guiding you on your purchase you are in the best of hands. I am not trying to scare you from the 3 1/4 case. I think it is a beautiful long and graceful case; just something to be aware of.

Charlie, I have the 450 NE and bought it after trying 500,470,450/400 at the Heym factory. I see the popularity of the 450/400 but a double is a close quarter elephant gun for me so I want the power. Also the recoil of the 450 NE was fine for me. I am very happy with my choice. But I see the popularity of the 450/400 and as you already have a 470 it might be a nice addition.

An excellent caliber but if I were building or buying a 40 caliber double I think I would opt for the 450-400-3", as brass is more readily available and its a better round for smokeless powder, as the 31/4" was designed for cordite.

That said, don't misinterpret me the 450-400-31/4 is a fine choice but having owned and shot both I preferred the 3"..I have found the 450-400s suitable for any animal on this planet and appreciate its lack of recoil by comparison to the .470 and its ability to return to sight picture much quicker. I actually prefered it to my .470 even for elephant, hippo or Buffalo.

Of all the big bore doubles I personally believe the 450-31/4 is probably the best of the best..

The .450-400 3 1/4" started life as a bpe round and made the transition to nitro and all I have seen were proofed for 60 grains of cordite.

The 3" version was made with a thicker rim and a more forward shoulder so it could not be put in an old bpe rifle. It was also made with heavier brass at the base as the thinner bpe rounds could stick in a hot chamber when loaded to full nitro velocities.

I have seen some 3" rifles with 60 grain charges of cordite but I have seen far more with the 55-grain tropical load.

A look at the barrel flats will tell the story. So, too, will the weight of the rifle and the rifling twist.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
If looking at the 3 1/4 inch case, be careful about the rifle being proofed for full nitro. The 3 inch Jeffery case does not have this concern. Th 3 inch Jeffery case was always a full nitro/cordiate round.

If Cal is guiding you on your purchase you are in the best of hands. I am not trying to scare you from the 3 1/4 case. I think it is a beautiful long and graceful case; just something to be aware of.

As LHeym500 just posted above, one must make very sure what you a re buying when buying a 450-400 3 ¼ “ double rifle. No new doubles are made for the 3 ¼ inch cartridge. Vintage 3 ¼ in doubles were originally black powder firearms, then later NITRO FOR BLACK ammo was offered for the blk powder rifles, and much later this cartridge was offered for nitro proofing. So one must be careful what he is buying. As Ray said the brass for the 3 in rifles are far more common than the 3 1/4 in.

OTH the 450-400 3 in rifles were never offered for black powder, or nitro for black powder and all are full Nitro proofed.

The other worry is the different bore diameters of vintage doubles in the 3 ¼ inch. Most modern doubles are bored for .410 dia, and all are full nitro proofed.
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