I haven't heard from Jim and didn't really expect to given his past history. I have an ongoing file with the Maine Attorney General's office but even they have problems contacting him. I've filed with the BBB but he apparently isn't a member as they have no record of his business. I have solicited and received a professional assessment of the final product due to the gracious efforts of a fellow forum member. I am endeavoring to obtain a few more in support of my case.

Does anyone know an attorney in Maine who may be willing to take up this case on a contingency basis? As I reside in Texas and Jim is in Maine I cannot even file in small claim's court without physically being present to file and potentially having to return to hear the case or to have someone do so in my stead.

Thank you,
Eric Leeton

Mac:
Good post yours, but this case must go beyond the gunsmithing issue. I agree a specialist needs to work on a double but this guy seems to do decent work on single barrels but even the finish on the metal of the double is not done. There is absolutely nothing on these barrels that are done right.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Mac:
Good post yours, but this case must go beyond the gunsmithing issue. I agree a specialist needs to work on a double but this guy seems to do decent work on single barrels but even the finish on the metal of the double is not done. There is absolutely nothing on these barrels that are done right.
Cal

You are absolutely right about the barrels he made, there is nothing right about this deal or smithing, and certainly not his integrity!

..........................................................................

MacD37,

The wisdom of your advice as well as that of the others who post here has truly sunk home with me... now. I am in no way bothered by your recent posts but rather I am bothered by my previous unwillingness to follow that same advice. Rest assured I am taking your posts as well as the rest of the forum constructively. I want others to learn from my mistakes not only in regard to this gunsmith but also to the next one who may come along.

You are most correct. Good bolt gun work and YouTube videos on shotgun to DR conversion do not a good DR gunsmith make. Consider me a proselyte to your cause willing to spread the word.

First clue. A decent Barrel set for a double rifle is going to run you in the neighborhood of $8,000. Much cheaper and you can be certain that you are not getting quality work.

If you are interested in quality Double rifle work PM H2O Boy. He is as a fine a double rifle smith as exists in this country today.

surestrike,

Back in 2007-8 I THOUGHT $3000 was a fair price. I won't be buying much of anything for a while whether barrels or factory gun.

Thank you for the recommendation though.

Looks like Mr. J.White took down his Facebook page..

I am also now denied from entering his Web Site. I'm guessing that he's played this game before.

Gents:
Jim White has a link to the Guilford Christian Academy on his website. This will all work out as he is a man of God!
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
Jim White has a link to the Guilford Christian Academy on his website. This will all work out as he is a man of God!
Cal

Boy oh boy I wish I had a dime for every time I've heard that one. "Oh yeah you can trust him he's a good christian!"

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
Jim White has a link to the Guilford Christian Academy on his website. This will all work out as he is a man of God!
Cal

Boy oh boy I wish I had a dime for every time I've heard that one. "Oh yeah you can trust him he's a good christian!"

Yeh, like all the scamming roofers who put the Christian FISH on their trucks and scam thousands and are never heard from again, from old people who have their roof damaged and no insurance, by the tarnados in North Texas!

...........................

Mac,

It's unfortunate but WAY to many scumbags use the cross to take advantage good natured, trusting, god fearing folks. They're seen as an easy mark by the con man.

The biggest dirt bag thief aircraft dealer in the history of crooked dealers had an add out in Trade a Plane that started off with "We're serious Christians you can trust us!" If anybody brings up god or the bible in a business deal as means of establishing trust I'm immediately done, deal over! I've yet to meet one of those types that turned out honest.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Mac,

It's unfortunate but WAY too many scumbags use the cross to take advantage good natured, trusting, god fearing folks. They're seen as an easy mark by the con man.

The biggest dirt bag thief aircraft dealer in the history of crooked dealers had an add out in Trade a Plane that started off with "We're serious Christians you can trust us!" If anybody brings up god or the bible in a business deal as means of establishing trust I'm immediately done, deal over! I've yet to meet one of those types that turned out honest.

Sort of like the "just say no to drugs" or "support your police" stickers on bumpers! Either one of those get some real suspicion from a cop on a traffic stop!

Real Christians do not wear their religion on there sleeve, or put it up front to prove their character!

After looking at the pics of bolt guns on this guys website and comparing them to the pics of the barrel set, I conclude that he did not build the bolt guns himself or that he purposefully cobbled the barrel set up to be as insulting as possible.

Someone with the basic skills needed to build bolt rifles that don't blow up upon firing is certainly capable of much better work than is demonstrated on those god awful barrels. I think someone put a lot of effort into making those barrels look that bad.

MAC:
I agree. To compare the two jobs on double/bolt do not add up. One can't possibly turn out fine work in a bolt gun and such crap in a double barrel. Seems the gunsmith started a Christian home school organization (?). Any viewers out there have any ideas on how to bring pressure to this guy to refund the money?
It ain't over until the fat lady sings.
Cheers all,
Cal

This is sad news. I dealt with him a couple of years ago with the same result on a simple revolver conversion. He failed to make the repairs when I sent it back and he refused to pay for the repairs that had to be done by a professional gunsmith. Maine's AG got nowhere but maybe my previous complaint will put some weight behind yours. I was incredulous to find out that such a dangerous trade has no governing body. Good luck.

Looks like this guy is your standard issue scumbag POS.

The Maine AG had no complaints on file until I entered mine. It looks as though they lost your file Targetshootr. I specifically asked them about other cases because by that time I knew you had filed. They had nothing on record.

If I can find any paperwork I'll forword it to you. All they did was send him a copy of my complaint and when I asked what his reply was, they said he refused arbitration and that was the end of it. I tried my best to put the sob out of business but when it comes to this particular trade, it looks like we're on our own. The trade I'm in, electrical contracting, is relentless about putting people like him out of business before they can screw with anyone else.

If you sent me bored and rifled blank(s) I garuntee I could do better for $3000 not knowing ANYTHING of how to build a double rifle.

That truely is pathetic. The fact you were conned, ripped off, and left high and dry is horrible, but I will tell you what really gets to me. As a "nobody" smith, it makes it even MORE difficult for customers to trust me with idiots out there like this.

Unbelievable. Public flogging should be reinstated for idiots like this.

That'll be helpful Targetshootr. I am hoping that with the multiple comments on this forum and the other I posted the pictures on, that the AG will move on this from a product liability issue. If a manufacturer sells a product he knows or should know is unsafe maybe that'll motivate the AG.

My primary objective is to get my money back and to get anyone else who maybe interested their money back as well. I've been patient and understanding for long enough. I've turned the other cheek until I have whiplash. If he is put out of business in the process he has brought it upon himself.

quote:

I was incredulous to find out that such a dangerous trade has no governing body.

Be careful about wanting a "governimg body"; the gov'ment will step in in all kinds of ways we don't want. Better to police ourselves than get any governmental agency involved.

quote:

Be careful about wanting a "governimg body"; the gov'ment will step in in all kinds of ways we don't want. Better to police ourselves than get any governmental agency involved.

Me and I think Eric would disagree. If plumbers and electricians and also hairdressers in my state have to have a state license, I'm ok with gunsmiths too.

Eric, I sent my info so the AG can do a search. I know what you're going through and I hate it.

DPCD,

I understand your concerns. I am at a loss as how to make this right. How do we police ourselves in this case? Mr. White sent this substandard work. He knew that while I wasn't happy with the delay I preferred to have a safe usable end product.

When dealing with individuals with integrity I concur. The role of government is prosecute individuals who choose not to follow the path of integrity. So while I concur that government shouldn't meddle in our daily lives and business transactions they do have a duty or obligation to prosecute the transgressor.

I suggest that you spead the word further than the two forums that you've done so far.

24 hr Campfire, Cast Boolits,Double Gunshop,GreyBeard, Africa Hunting ect. The more the word gets out the less likely hood that someone else gets this screw over.
It might not help you but it will help others.

Mike: Good ideas. Remind me never to piss you off.
Cal

LOL, I doubt that is ever going to happen Cal.

I just think that others might be spared with this 'craftmanship' in the future.

Mike,

Thanks for the tip. I'm working on it now.

Here's short presentation on YouTube. Feel free to visit at:
http://youtu.be/wGf-kQpkj70

He still has his web site up. I just looked at it. What a bum.

The first pictures he provided of your rifle that you originally posted on NE are misleading.





It is amazing how the right camera angle, a little lighting, and just the right amount of out-of-focus can hide.

Grenadier,

Revisiting the pictures it makes me wonder if they even are the same gun. The front site looks different than mine. This pictures shows a bead whereas mine has flush, rectangular insert.

I have updated the video a bit. Obviously I'm not an expect at this. The freeware compromises the resolution a bit unfortunately.

http://youtu.be/3ec3KVifM9U

The A.G. of a state is the Chief Law Enforcement person of that state for criminal prosecution.
What about going with a straight forward lawsuit?

D'Angelico Fan,

Since I am in Texas and he is in Maine a straight forward lawsuit is problematic financially. I haven't found anyone willing to take the case "pro bono" or on contingency. One fella would do it for $10,000 up front.

ELeeton, I have replied to you on Nitro forums, I seriously would not attempt to fire that "rifle" and if the small courts work the same in the USA as the UK you should get your money back without incurring costs, best and good luck, Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ELeeton:
D'Angelico Fan,

Since I am in Texas and he is in Maine a straight forward lawsuit is problematic financially. I haven't found anyone willing to take the case "pro bono" or on contingency. One fella would do it for $10,000 up front.

He must be Smith's brother-in-law! He's out to skin you a little more than the so-called gun smith!

You can't litigate over $3,000. It make no sense at all financially. It would cost you more than that just to file, much less try the case.Even if you won there is the issue of whether you can collect.

Targetshooter[quote]I was incredulous to find out that such a dangerous trade has no governing body. Good luck.[/quote
________________
In my lifetime, I have known quite a few so-called "gunsmiths" with whom I wouldn't trust to work on a paperclip, but, based on what appears to be work by this guy, he takes the cake. Regarding the so-called gunsmithing profession, I know one who freely admits to having never taken a single gunsmithing class in gunsmithing school; freely admits to being "self taught." Some of his work shows it too, and some of his "knowledge" leaves a lot to be desired. Instances like this throw bad light on the whole profession.

A bit of an update. I reached Jim's wife on their number for the firearms safety and maintenance course they offer. She assured me that Jim was working to find a way to make this right for me.

I'm pretty sure I saw the same website as the rest of you guys, I didn't see anything there that would lead me to believe he was even competent on bolt rifles

First, if I'm going to show pics of my work to solicit clients I'm going to show good pictures, high resolution large pictures so people can really see. He's careful to never do that. He has one rifle where he brags about the checkering, I am pretty sure I could see flat diamonds, so unless he was going for a mixed flat/pointed look he failed. One rifle the stock is straight out of the 60's, maybe the client requested that and he has no scruples so delivered, I think more likely he has shit taste to match his work and that's what he turned out.

There's a picture of him forging a bolt handle with a claw hammer. Now I have sometimes used a claw hammer for the wrong job, but I sure as hell wouldn't take a picture of me using the wrong tool for the job in the place where I'm trying to solicit more business!

Horrible man, real sorry for you. LIkely you'll never see any of your money again but for your sake I hope I'm wrong.

Red