Has anyone tried IMR's Trail Boss? IMR's website as well as the april 2010 #265 issue of Handloader extoll it's virtues as a safe an viable powder for reduced loads

I have no experience using it in double rifles. I have had excellent results in several big bore cartridges.

Sherman Bell has written several articles in Double Gun Journal that feature evaluations of Trail Boss. As I recall, he really liked it for use in single shot BP rifles, but couldn't get enough velocity from big bore doubles to regulate properly. (powder too bulky?)

Check out his articles. He's done lots of research on nitro for black loads in a variety of rifles and shotguns. He doesn't just give opinion, he backs his findings up with pressure data using strain gauges,measured velocities and patterns.

AA 5744

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
AA 5744

What lane said. Works well in a 500 with 600 gr lead bullets.

45grns 5744 works well in a .470 with 380grn bullets- regulates to boot

Agree on 5744. In the big bores, it really is no slouch on the upper end either, so you have a wide range of velocities you can play with. I was quite surprised at the velocities attainable with the 500N and 5744 and still be at or below factory pressures. With TB you are limited to mouse fart velocities.

If some of you can give me the 5744 loads you are using with 500 grain bullets I'll pressure test them in my 470. I know with this powder you are not to use wadding. So are any of you having hang fires?

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
If some of you can give me the 5744 loads you are using with 500 grain bullets I'll pressure test them in my 470. I know with this powder you are not to use wadding. So are any of you having hang fires?

Sam

Sam I have loaded 45-55 grs with 500 gr 470
cast and jacked bullets. Do not use a filler with 5744!

JD

JD,

Do you know the velocities you are getting with these loads?

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
JD,

Do you know the velocities you are getting with these loads?

Sam

NF Mike,

Worked up some data for me in a .500 NE with 5744 and cast.

You might holler at him.

Hey Doc,
Any issues with leading when you use the cast bullets in your double?

I used to cast for all of my revolvers with linotype (which I can't seem to find anymore) and didn't have much of a problem even when I pushed them hard but really didn't do much with rifles (except the muzzleloaders).

Thanks

.500 NE 3"

Jamison brass, CCI 200 primer, Cast Performance .510-500 (actual average ~ 528grs), AA5744 (of current manufacture)

40grs = 1409fps no pressure recorded (too low to move metal and affect resistance of the strain gage.
45grs = 1553fps same
50grs = 1705fps 23,300psiM43
55grs = 1806fps 25,900psiM43
60grs = 1986fps 32,100psiM43
65grs = 2125fps 38,900psiM43
65grs = 2115fps 38,900psiM43
65grs = 2094fps 36,900psiM43 (might not have gotten as good a crimp)

Leading is a problem but not bad under 1800 fps.

ledvm,

Thanks I guess pressure tests have been done for 5744 so I don't need to mess with them.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
ledvm,

Thanks I guess pressure tests have been done for 5744 so I don't need to mess with them.

Sam

Courtesy of NF Mike!!!

450-400 NE Kreigoff

355 Montana FNGC Cast 52.0 AA5744 WLRM 2078 f/s

355 Montana FNCG Cast 35.0 AA5744 F150 1597 f/s

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
.500 NE 3"

Jamison brass, CCI 200 primer, Cast Performance .510-500 (actual average ~ 528grs), AA5744 (of current manufacture)

40grs = 1409fps no pressure recorded (too low to move metal and affect resistance of the strain gage.
45grs = 1553fps same
50grs = 1705fps 23,300psiM43
55grs = 1806fps 25,900psiM43
60grs = 1986fps 32,100psiM43
65grs = 2125fps 38,900psiM43
65grs = 2115fps 38,900psiM43
65grs = 2094fps 36,900psiM43 (might not have gotten as good a crimp)

Leading is a problem but not bad under 1800 fps.

How did the full power loads shoot, and did they regulate

JD

JD,

These were stats and comments from NF Mike's test barrel.

Have not shot any in my Merkel yet.

I was just coomenting in the thread that if you were to try...AA 5744 would most likely be the best bet.

Leading occurred in the test barrel above 1800 fps.

I was going to try them as a practice load...IF they will regulate.

I wonder if full power loads are possible with 5744, with out pressure problems. Fillers are a problem with 5744 and should never be used. It seems to burn cleaner has the loads get hotter.
55 gr loads in the 470 with 500 gr bullets have plenty of recoil and would most likely kill any thing that walks the US.

Sam please try a 50 gr load then 55gr , if the pressure is still good a 60 gr load I would go up in 5 gr intivals.


I shoot 55 gr loads with jacked bullets and got good accuracy in my merkel,but did not chrony the loads. There was a article on loading for the 470 on the old african hunter site. He did extensive work with 5744 and cast bullets and stop at 55 grs. 55 grs and a hornady xtp pistol bullet will get a pigs or deer attention in a heart beat.

I am am starting to wonder if its a low engery powder only capabile of making 39000 psi and adding more just makes the pressure curve longer. It could be ideal for full power with jacked or banded bullets.

This testing has done so much for the shooting community. We now know foam is the way to go.
That h4895 has a lot of potential. The more I load it the more I like it. That barnes banded bullets or most likley safe in modern rifles. Lubeing banded bullets may bring pressure down even more.

Sam thanks again for the good work.

JD

I am also impressed with the testing SRose has done on the 470 double.

I have used a Starling cast 500 grain lead bullet with 45 gains of 5744 in Bell brass, which traveled at 1570 fps and shot to the point of regulation in my Austrian 470 double.

Have also tried paper patched lead bullets in the 470 double. A 480 grain paper patched lead bullet on top of 98 grains of IMR 4831 travels at 2200 fps, a full power load, and to the same point of regulation. The lead slug was poured from a Hoch custom mold.

My son dropped a 450lb Feral hog with the 45 grain 5744 and a Starling lead bullet load in the 470 double.

I remember when Trail Boss first came out, Grahme Wright specifically mentioned it in his book...as in "beware". I can't remember what the issue he forsaw was...I'll have to go back and read it.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:I'll have to go back and read it.

Uh Huh... Right....

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
Sam I have loaded 45-55 grs with 500 gr 470
cast and jacked bullets. Do not use a filler with 5744!

JD

What's up with "no filler"? Does this powder fill up the case volume? Or does it not burn completely and leave a mess in the barrel and action with the filler catching unburned grains of powder.