I had the opportunity to shoot a Heym in 500 N.E. (23.5 inch barrels) from Chris Sells this weekend, while I wait for mine to be finished. This particular rifle liked everything I put in it. I tried H4350 with GS solids (103g-2052fps, thanks Dan) one inch groups, It liked IMR 4350 (105g) with both solid and soft woodies one inch+ groups. It liked IMR 4831 110g with both Woodies 1.5 inch groups. But the load that stood at the top of the heap both in accuracy and felt recoil in this particular rifle was loads with R-15. Felt recoil with the R-15 loads was reduced by at least 10%, you could do a blind test on the range and be able to call which load was R-15 and which were not (of course reduced powder charge = reduced recoil). The particular load that was wonderful in this rifle was 90 grains of R-15 with Kynoch #2 wad cut down just a little to .9 grains (thanks Mike J. for the wads) and it shot both solid (2110 fps) and soft woodies (2067fps) at 7/8 inch and 5/8 inch groups respectively at 50 yds. Velocity measured with Oehler chrono with 4 foot bar. Maybe new guy can post one of the targets I emailed him, Sorry, I'm still somewhat ignorant on how to post pics.

Here's your photo Dirk.

One shot from each barrel? Come on, shoot two at least! But let us assume the reliability of this small sample for assessing the rifle/load/shooter.

You are "converged" at 90 grains, and way past "crossed" at 92 grains.

But I like it that way. Not parallel to infinity but right on the money at 50.

90 grains would seem to be perfect.

But, the faster, crossed load should be shooting lower on the target than the slower one. Were you using a higher POA on the target, as well as a POA shifted to the left on the target, for the faster 92-grain load or what???

LL......RR (too slow: high and widely diverged at 50 yards)

....LR.... (medium velocity: closely converged at 50 yards: all 4 shots in one hole for the inhumanly perfect shooter)

RR......LL (too fast: low and crossed at 50 yards)

Barrel dwell time coupled with recoil muzzle rise is the reason the slow loads shoot high at 50 yards, and the fast loads shoot low at 50 yards, just as we learned with our 454 Casull revolvers. The barrel is pointing higher in the air by the time the bullet leaves the barrel. Muzzle rise starts as soon as the bullet begins to travel down the barrel.

I just repeat this for Judge G's consideration.

To be parallel to infinity you might try 89.5 89.0 grains of RL-15 and expect velocity of 2040 fps.

Rip, your such a perfectionist, I agree. When I get my own 500 I'll be feeding it all kinds of formula.

I used 89 grains of Reloader 15 and it regulated well, but I did not like the idea of a filler. My best load is 103 H4350 and a GS Custom FN.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
Rip, your such a perfectionist, I agree. When I get my own 500 I'll be feeding it all kinds of formula.

Dirk,
I meant to say 89.0 grains, which is what extrapolates to 2040 fps and.

At least I got half of it right above.

Now, with backup from 500grains experience, I feel confident in declaring your load to be 89.0 grains for parallel to infinity, or 90.0 grains for spot-on at 50 yards.

You will have to decide between these two. If the elevation is right for the 90.0 grain load, at 50 yards, I would stick with that.

The 89.0 grain load will shoot a tad higher at 50 yards but might be at the proper elevation at 100 yards ... and parallel to infinity.

By the way, with a 570 grain bullet I could not tell any difference in recoil between the loads:

89.0 Re-15
103 H4350
110 IMR4831

all F215

I use 90 grains of RL-15 (with filler of Dacron) or 110 grains of H4831 (no filler) in the 470 NE with 500-grainers ... I cannot tell any difference in recoil either. The H4831 is the better shooter in my Merkel. I love posting that sub-1" 4-shot group at 50 meters, but I shall spare you all now.

Some 470's have tighter bores than my Merkel, but mine is plenty accurate.

RIP-

What load do you use to get your double to re-cross after the point at which they cross? And do they really weave back and forth, like a lazy sine wave, to infinity????

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
RIP-

What load do you use to get your double to re-cross after the point at which they cross? And do they really weave back and forth, like a lazy sine wave, to infinity????

Jim,
Funny you should ask. R&D at HA! (Hilltop Arms, Inc.) is working on a special fast-twist double rifle in .395 Nitro Express (AKA .395 Tatanka Rimmed 4.25") that does just that! It uses a 1000-grain bullet in a 4.25" long, thick-rimmed (0.080") case with 1:7" twist barrels. The monometal copper FN and CUP Point bullets for it are about 3.5" long and protrude from the case 2.75" for loaded ammo 7.000" Max. COL.

When fired at night with special tracer ammo it provides a spectacular corkscrew effect. The HA! company picnic will have a fireworks show for the 4th of July featuring this display for the kiddies.

I got 2020 FPS with 87 grs. of RL-15 in my Searcy .470 and I used 5 grs. of Dacron on top of the powder...

With 108 grs. of IMR-4831 I clocked 2237 average for 10 shots, Butch clocked 2245 FPS with the same rifle, heat or difference in chronograph I suspect but still close enough.

I have found RL-15 to be a great double rifle powder and I only use it and IMR-4831 in a modern double.

In an English gun I prefer RL-15 as I have heard so much BS about IMR-4831 and I don't buy it as I have used it for so long, but what if they are right!! so I don't use it! follow my reasoning?