I have been dreaming & planning to get my first DR & am leaning towards ordering a new VC rather than buy a used British classic as I had originally wanted.

Ken from Kebco has sent me some good info & I also got some directly from VC France.

Here is my basic wish list

PH round body action with colour case hardening.
Cal probably 450 NE or 470 NE.

Among the many options I like the idea of a British cheek piece with shaddow line for an extra Ero 204.

Higher grade wood will be Euro 475 which I might go for.

My question is about the three other options - aticulated trigger Euro 192, English 1+2 rear sight and flip up bead - Euro 312 & sling swivels Euro 244. Are these three really worth the exta US$1000? I can see the appeal of the sights and also the practicality of the sling swivels.

What is the big deal about articulated triggers? Is it a comfort / precaution against hurting your fingers with the recoil?

The base rifle will cost about US$ 6000 $9,200 excluding French VAT and with all the extras it will be about US$ 7000 $12500 excluding French VAT.

I would appreciate any suggestions.

EDITED: Corrected the errors in currency conversion rates.

I don't think the articulated triggers are necessary, especially in a modern rifle. If you add all that stuff to it, you might as well go for the Azur safari standard. Mine has three leaf express sights (the 75M works!) sling swivels, flip over night sight and shadowline cheek piece. jorge

I wish my VC had the articulating trigger, I have fat fingers and my finger gets whacked nearly every time I pull the rear trigger.

My advice is to make sure you get all the features that you really want so that you are not later saying "I wish I had ..."

Sling swivels are the one thing I'd say you should absolutely have. I've not used mine yet but I have a sling rolled up in a pocket on every safari "just in case".

The other stuff is "nice to have but not necessary" as Ken would say.

Nakihunter,

Thought you wanted a 450-400? A 450 would be a really good choice.

Sam

Sam

Since you wont part with "my" 450/400, I'll look at other options for our 2013 hunt!

If I can get the money, I might even add an extra barrel for about $3500 - a 375 Flanged whould be perfect with a 450 NE.

If I don't get the money by then, I'll just borrow "my" 450/400 off you!

Naki,

I just ordered mine from Ken at the SCI show. A round body PH, CCH, in 500NE. I opted for the sling swivels as I use a quick detach sling some of the time. I also opted for the articulated trigger although with a proper LOP, it probably isn't as necessary. I have found however, that even with proper LOP, it is sometimes possible to shoulder the rifle in a bad position and can lead to the front trigger contacting the finger upon firing the rear. I really don't think the extra sights are necessary but it's your call.

Now about the price you mentioned. You did say 450NE or 470NE so we aren't talking about the small frames such as the 9.3X74. Base rifle $6,000 with the extra's bringing it to $7,000US??? Mine is almost exactly the same as you describe and it is pushing $14,000. Are you sure you have your numbers correct??!!

Todd

I am sorry I made a BIG mistake in my currency conversions. My quotes were for an Azur Safari PH without Fench VAT. Yours will include US duty. That account for 25% or there abouts difference. Add shipping costs insurance etc.

Ken's quote for the basic rifle is around US$10000 ex France including VAT - basic wood, baisc cheek piece, regular single V sight & regular trigger & no sling swivels. You have probably gone for a higher grade wood as just one level up costs Euro 475. I remember some of the Turkish wood costs up to 3K more. Ken also mentioned that the rifle on display at SCI was $13800.

I will end up paying 15% GST in NZ & about $300 shipping I guess.

I am sure Ken would have given you at least the same deal. He is very well regarded on AR & it is a small world & there are no secrets.

The difference in price between the US anywhere else can be explained,

The US price includes import permits, shipping, excise tax, duty, liability insurance, brokers and final shipping to the customers FFL.

The price quoted when the factory ships direct to the end user outside the US is in euro's and FOB France. The out of the US customer is responsible for any import permits, freight, duty, etc.

Well, I knew something wasn't right with those numbers. I was thinking to myself, "Ole Naki is going to have a surprise when the final bill comes due"!!

Naki, I can well reccomend you start doing your homework into Import/shipping now.

Not meaning to put you off your purchase, believe me I have done as you have and purchased from V.C France with help from Ken.

The reason I am saying this is that I have recently imported two bolt guns from the U.S.
The final cost was close to the original retail cost of the firearms !!

As Ken notes there are export fees, import permit fees, freight forwarding/shipping fees, duty & taxes, insurances, Customs clearances (and here in Aus we also have to have Quaranteen clearance) etc etc. Then here in Aus a new firearm must go through a licensed dealer and they won't do that for a smile and a handshake.

Do your homework and start getting firm quotes and expect to have to outlay a fair wad of spidoola to get that two-tube over to en-zed.

Best of luck,

Paul.

Thanks to all for the good advise.

Here in NZ I can get an import license and actually bring a gun with me on the plane. However the US will not allow me to take a gun out. My local dealer can be the receiver of my gun and fulfill the legal requirements of the sending country & he will charge me a nominal fee.

There are no official VC retailers her in NZ. Hence the above approach. I did contact Ken first and he suggested that I get it shipped out of France.

Hopefully I'll land a good consulting assignment to pay for the rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I have been dreaming & planning to get my first DR & am leaning towards ordering a new VC rather than buy a used British classic as I had originally wanted.


My question is about the three other options - aticulated trigger Euro 192, English 1+2 rear sight and flip up bead - Euro 312 & sling swivels Euro 244. Are these three really worth the exta US$1000? I can see the appeal of the sights and also the practicality of the sling swivels.

What is the big deal about articulated triggers? Is it a comfort / precaution against hurting your fingers with the recoil?

The base rifle will cost about US$ 6000 $9,200 excluding French VAT and with all the extras it will be about US$ 7000 $12500 excluding French VAT.

I would appreciate any suggestions.

EDITED: Corrected the errors in currency conversion rates.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
I don't think the articulated triggers are necessary, especially in a modern rifle. If you add all that stuff to it, you might as well go for the Azur safari standard. Mine has three leaf express sights (the 75M works!) sling swivels, flip over night sight and shadowline cheek piece. jorge

Nakihunter, I would agree with Jorge, with all the add-ons you want, at $12.5K US, I would simply get the Azur safari standard as Jorge describes. His rifle is absolutely beautiful and well worth $12.5us.
Like you, I have never understood the articulated trigger as long as the triggers are spaced properly, and a proper hold by the shooter is applied. Many claim the multiple flip-ups on the rear sight are for decoration only but that is not true of well made double rifles like the VC Azur. IMO, Jorge’s rifle is set up properly for hunting dangerous game anyplace in the world today, and under all bush conditions, perfect for a serious professional hunter in Africa!

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
My advice is to make sure you get all the features that you really want so that you are not later saying "I wish I had ..."

I also agree with CCMDoc above because if you don’t you will always wish you had!
Folks often ask why I recommend many things pertaining to PROPER set-up for dangerous game rifles. They say many of the things I recommend are to guard against things that rarely happen, if ever! My answer to that is, things that almost never happen are the things that if they do happen you will be entirely unprepared to overcome quickly, which could bring about some dire outcomes!
My take is why not prepare for as many events as is possible? Pro-active is 100 % more valuable, in this case, than RE-active where dangerous game is concerned. Prepare for all the eventualities you can.

Someone is sitting in shade today, because someone else suggested he plant a tree years ago! .......

Can I ask a real novice question here? I've not handled a double, and although I've looked at some not enough side by side to see the difference between the british guns and the "all others". from what I've overheard guys saying the british rifles, other than collectibility and cost, have a different feel. If that's true, they just feel better due to their stocking, and it seems VC is very accommodating of customer wishes, would it be possible to buy the less expensive VC and have it stock so it felt and handled the same as a WR or an H&H?

Red

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Nakihunter, I would agree with Jorge, with all the add-ons you want, at $12.5K US, I would simply get the Azur safari standard as Jorge describes. His rifle is absolutely beautiful and well worth $12.5us.

I think you boys haven't looked at the prices lately. Ken would be the better one to comment, but I've explored all the options of the different VC models thoroughly. The $12,500 Azur Safari is a thing of the past unless you can find one that is already built and discounted because of being a show gun, or used. From what I remember, those models built today are more like $16,500. I stand to be corrected on this but I did ask a lot of questions. I also understand Naki is not purchasing a US imported rifle but would bet in the end, his cost is going to be similar when all is said and done.

Naki, get what YOU want in YOUR rifle. Let others get what THEY want in THEIR rifle. If you see a need for a particular option, go for it. I didn't pick the RB PH because of price. I picked it because of the look and feel and the way the stock blends into the action. Then I added the items I prefer such as the sling swivels and articulated trigger. Enhanced engraving and shadow line cheekpiece as well but that is aesthetics.

This was my reasoning: Swivels; I use a sling from time to time and just take it off in the thick stuff. Easier to add now than later. Articulated Trigger; With proper LOP, the front trigger SHOULD NOT come into contact with the finger when firing the rear trigger, but that doesn't always hold true. On my last tuskless hunt, I put in an insurance shot with the cow being downhill at a sharp angle. The gun shouldered under the armpit more than traditionally. When I fired the second insurance shot, the rifle recoiled at a little different angle and caught my finger. It cut my knuckle pretty bad. Had that trigger not been articulated, it would have cut to the bone. Pop Up Sights; Can be useful but I have never used them on my Merkel. In fact, I get frustrated with them catching on brush or my pants leg and popping up. I've thought about having them taken off. As far as shooting longer ranges, I've sort of developed an idea of where I need to place the bead in the V to make the shot. A bit like instinctive shooting with archery equipment. It works for me, at leaset for the ranges I can effectively use open sights for.

Mac's comments about getting the rifle properly set up are correct. I'll add my opinion if you'll permit. Practice and total familiarity with your rifle and it's peculiarities will be more important than any options you may elect to install on your weapon when and if you find yourself in a tight spot

Those are MY reasons concerning the options you asked about. Get the options that will make your rifle special to you. But I'd get that order in soon as it doesn't appear that prices are heading down anytime soon.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dago Red:
Can I ask a real novice question here? I've not handled a double, and although I've looked at some not enough side by side to see the difference between the british guns and the "all others". from what I've overheard guys saying the british rifles, other than collectibility and cost, have a different feel. If that's true, they just feel better due to their stocking, and it seems VC is very accommodating of customer wishes, would it be possible to buy the less expensive VC and have it stock so it felt and handled the same as a WR or an H&H?

Red[/QUOTE

I am certaintly no expert but held about 25-30 English doubles at SCI this year along with Searcy's Heym's and VC's. I just don't get the allure for English doubles as far as they handle better. If the rifle fits you it handles nicely, if it doesnt it feels like a club. But I'll give the English credit, they sure can build a beautiful double, with a price tag to match. Handled a couple of H&H 700's that went for $252,000 each.

Guys I apologize if I wasn't clear enough, my rifle as purchased was about a grand more than 12.5 delivered. Todd (or Ken) have the prices gone up that much recently? jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Guys I apologize if I wasn't clear enough, my rifle as purchased was about a grand more than 12.5 delivered. Todd (or Ken) have the prices gone up that much recently? jorge

See Jorge, your rifle has already increased in value! That is always what happens when you
buy good quality double rifles at a fair price!

Todd,I believe Nakihunter is the one stating the prices VC gave him from France to New Zeland and you know the price is always one price when quoting to someone from Europe or New Zeland, and another for someone from the USA!

.........................

Yeah Mac, the numbers are quoted differently from France as compared to US. I do think they will continue to go up.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Nakihunter, I would agree with Jorge, with all the add-ons you want, at $12.5K US, I would simply get the Azur safari standard as Jorge describes. His rifle is absolutely beautiful and well worth $12.5us.

I think you boys haven't looked at the prices lately. Ken would be the better one to comment, but I've explored all the options of the different VC models thoroughly. The $12,500 Azur Safari is a thing of the past unless you can find one that is already built and discounted because of being a show gun, or used. From what I remember, those models built today are more like $16,500.

Yikes! $16,500 for a PH. Now I really love my K-gun and the .375 Chapuis Jungle I just ordered

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Nakihunter, I would agree with Jorge, with all the add-ons you want, at $12.5K US, I would simply get the Azur safari standard as Jorge describes. His rifle is absolutely beautiful and well worth $12.5us.

I think you boys haven't looked at the prices lately. Ken would be the better one to comment, but I've explored all the options of the different VC models thoroughly. The $12,500 Azur Safari is a thing of the past unless you can find one that is already built and discounted because of being a show gun, or used. From what I remember, those models built today are more like $16,500.

Yikes! $16,500 for a PH. Now I really love my K-gun and the .375 Chapuis Jungle I just ordered

No! $16,500 for a Azur Safari. Again, I may be wrong on that.

Todd, that's still a yikes!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Todd, that's still a yikes!

Yes sir! It is!!

"Yikes! $16,500 for a PH. Now I really love my K-gun and the .375 Chapuis Jungle I just ordered"

That is a little high unless you really dress the girl up...the round body PH, with ejectors, shadowline cheekpiece, inletted sling swivels, day night front sight was $13,500 at Dallas and SCI.

I had a standard (one level up from the PH) model at the DSC and SCI show with all of the above and bolsters, upgraded wood, upgraded engraving, checkered cheekpanels, pistol grip reservoir and a leather covered pad for $16,500

Whew!
Glad you stepped in and cleared that up Ken. I was starting to wonder what I was going to need to raise for my next few Verney-Carrons