For Doubles of course. I've mentioned this before, but I sure would like to know what you guys are seeing out there in all NE calibers loaded by Hornady.

Out of my 25" 450NE VC, I'm seeing about 2080 out of both DGXs and solids. I push mine handloads closer to the 2150 mark, but do so with lighter 450gr CEBs and North Forks (they give me nice tight regulation too) and the 480s Woodleighs I hold to about 2100-20 or so, given the published velocites for the 450 were/ar with 28" barrels. jorge

I did for the .470 NE and can't exactly recall the velocity for certain as it has been several years but they were way off from the velocity on the box. Numbers I seem to recall were the 500 grain that should have been at 2150 were 2035 or in that vicinity.

Great idea, Jorge. I have chronographed a couple factory loads in 6.5x52R and several in 7x65R doubles but I don't have the results anymore. The same goes for several factory loads measured out of single shot rifles, including 375NE and 450NE. Currently, I don't have anything to contribute to your effort but I am still interested in seeing the results.

Jorge and Pago, I think all velocities on factory boxes will be very optimistic! The reason is most ammo manufactures when working up a new load in their line-up are done in 30 Inch test barrels till they get the speed they want that will consistently group well. So they are not lying that is a true velocity.

It is just when the consumer uses that ammo in a 24, 26, or 28 inch barrel it will be slower. There is not an elephant or buffalo in the world than can tell the difference between 2050, and 2150 fps, so if it regulates in your rifle nothing is lost!

Jorge, does the Hornady factory regulate well in your rifle? If so it will be good back-up ammo if your handloads get lost!

the rifle was regulated with Hornady ammo and it regulates well. The point of the exercise is if I can easily tune my regulation by increasing/decreasing velocities in increments of 25 (and have done so), then a 100 fps delta in velocity should produce significant variation in regulation. My theory is that bullet weight shape also affect regulation and just as much. Given the fact the best and tighest groups have been produced using 450gr North Fork softs and solids as well as CEB Raptors and solids and all these weigh in at 450 and not 480.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
the rifle was regulated with Hornady ammo and it regulates well. The point of the exercise is if I can easily tune my regulation by increasing/decreasing velocities in increments of 25 (and have done so), then a 100 fps delta in velocity should produce significant variation in regulation. My theory is that bullet weight shape also affect regulation and just as much. Given the fact the best and tighest groups have been produced using 450gr North Fork softs and solids as well as CEB Raptors and solids and all these weigh in at 450 and not 480.

Absolutely perfect thinking! I like to find readily available factory ammo that will regulate if my hand loads fail to reach the hunt with my rifle. I too like the North Fork solids and cup points for my handloads, but have not used any of the CEBs yet.

I have chronographed the 500NE DGS Hornady loads. They are averaging 2020fps out of my VC with 26" tubes. This is in colder temps 15-20 centigrade . In hotter weather similar to ZIm in august I think I was seeing an increase in velocity of approx 30fps. There was a slight vertical variation in regulation at 50 mts over summer / winter . Nothing significant for ele accuracy though!

Cheers

Nick

nickh: but what does the BOX say it should chrono...

Several Members of the DRSS were consulted by Hornady when they began their Nitro Express Project.

Hornady was Especially careful to load their NEW Nitro Express ammo so it would regulate and shoot properly in the old British guns.

They did an excellent job and are to be commended for it.

They have also done an excellent job of keeping the price of their Nitro Express ammo as low as possible.

Hornady DGX factory ammo in my gun average 2115

Hornady DGS factory ammo in my gun averages 2045

Searcy classic 24" bbl.

Jorge, from Hornaday's web site the 500NE soft and solid are listed at 2150fps out of a 24" barrel.

FWIW, some years ago I polled as many 450NE owners as I could find - all of the 450NE's - and asked them for the velocities they were getting with load made to match their rifle's regulation. This was just prior to Hornaday coming out with their factory ammo. The results of the poll were, as I recall, that the average velocity was right near 2100fps, with most a bit lower and a few a little higher, with the exception of the 450NE No 2, where the few owners, including NE 450 No 2, all reported their velocities right at the nominal, original listed velocity of 2150fps.

Same question of 470NE owners revealed a bit lower average velocity, iirc, near nearer 2050fps.

I have Graeme Wright's book, and I will look, but I recall that he cited about 2100fps as typical velocity for a 450NE 3 1/4".

What I have found with my rifle, which is a 458wm, is that some powders produce a plateau where the rifle shoots to regulation even as velocity increases with incremental powder charge increases. Below the plateau, the rifle shoots apart, as one would expect, and above it crosses, also as expected. But through the range of the plateau barrel time must be decreasing at the same rate that recoil rate is increasing, leading to the bullets leaving the muzzle at he same point in the recoil arch.

I have found this with most but not all powders, and I have found this with my Woodleigh 500grainers and my North Fork second generation 450FN solids.

In my rifle, I have found, with the 500gr Woodleighs, regulating loads at about 2035fps, 2100 and 2135, those velocities at the top end of the plateaus.

I don't load for the 450NE 3 1/4" but I wonder if there are a couple of different powders to try?

Hope this helps,

JPK

Jorge,

When I was having regulation issues with my new VC, Ken sent me a box of Hornady DGX for the 500NE. It was regulated with that ammo so we wanted to check it against factory rounds. I had heard that I should expect very low velocity, perhaps a bit under 2,000 from my 24" barrels.

However, I was surprised to get a very consistent 2,125fps out of the factory fodder. I had also heard Hornady changed the factory load which is possibly the reason the rifle needed a bit of work in the first place, being regulated at the factory with the old ammo, then not quite shooting the new stuff, or my handloads that matched that speed, to regulation. IDK. Possible explanation I suppose.

Still, not withstanding the very good velocity of 2,125fps, I wouldn't shoot any critter capable of stomping or biting with a DGX bullet ... EVER!

Interesting point re the Hornady factory ammo upping velocity at some stage.
At what distance from the muzzle are these readings made?

Cheers

Nick

Jorge
Will look at one of the boxes tomorrow and see.

Nick

Gents, as I continue to delve into this a bit more 9and some of you have PM'd me and I thank you), my observations to date have been along with that Todd says (and Ken). When I first shot my VC with factory stuff, velocities were consistently in the 2060-2080 range. Back then (2011) I took one of their DGXs apart and found 91.3gr of H-4831 (confirmed by Hornady, the were very cooperative in answering my questions). When I loaded the same charge I barely made it to 2000 fps, validating what we already know, that powder lots vary, and Hornady loads their bullets to velocity/pressure, so a different lot might require more powder to attain the 2150 advertised velocity (again their boxes stipulate 28" barrels).

Interesting observation though,I ordered a new box of DGX for grins and since last year, the shells are loaded with more powder (the older ones had enough of a gap you could hear the powder when you shook the bullet and this new box you cannot).

I will shoot the rifle this Saturday with:
A. The old box of factory DGXs
B. The new box of DGXs that are obviously loaded with more powder
C. my hand loaded DGXs (98gr H-4831)

And report back to you guys. Here is my theory again;

While I concur velocity can and does change regulation, bullet construction and weight plays at least an equally important part, otherwise, it makes no sense that my rifle regulates with the 480gr DGX at 2060 the same as it does at 2150 and even more so with 450gr bullets driven closer to 2200. If you guys have other results/observations, by all means keep them coming. jorge

Jorge,

So all that ammo I bought from you last year is low velocity? If that is the case I may pull the bullets and reload them.

The DGX ammo I bought new last year averaged 2116 fps on the 11 shots I checked. I haven't checked the ammo I got from you as of yet.

Just got back from the range with mixed results sorry to say. Factory ammo (same lot afp) was all over the place, from 2060 to 2140 but regulated well and yes the faster ones were tighter. When I load the DGXs/Sto 2150 or close to it I get right at 1" groups, and the 450gr North Forks (both softs & solids) as well as CEB 450s right there with them. Woodleighs also regulate well, albeit a bit more "right wing down" which is no big deal to me anyway. Blaine if you do pull one of them apart, I'd like to know the powder weight please.

Will do. I'll also chrono some as is. I bought it mainly as practice ammo to shoot as is, but the idea of tweaking it is hard to resist.

Checked my 500ne HOrnady factory loads.
The box States MV of 2100fps from 24" barrel
This is on both DGS and DGX loads

Cheers

Nick

Thanks, Nick. I'm starting to suspect the chrono a bit as often-times I use it without the screens if the sun is not out too much. The Hornady bullets are definitively the most accurate but the North Forks softs and solides and CEBs (softs) a very close second. Sun's over the yardarm, time to "Splice the Mainbrace"!

Now THATS a great photo!

jorge,
i like your style!!!!! i am familiar with Talisker single malt, but that cigar has me stumped. more details please!!!

Nick

Good morning, here you go Nick, www.safaricigar.com

Pricey, but I tried them and they are very good cigars.

George ....
We need to ween you off of those Skye Malts and get on a good Islay Malt say a 18yr Lagavulin..
In fact a glass or two carefully placed over your chrony screens might keep your numbers more consistent an be silently standing by to reward you after a days shooting....
Stay interesting my friend

By the way Doug Giles' Clash DAilyis a fun Web Site..
http://clashdaily.com/

Oh no need Bob! Lagavulin's a favorite already although I must confess I like my Talisker, particularly the 18yr which is no longer available at least in my neck of the woods.

Jorge,
Thanks for the link! Ordering some of the Torpedos .

Cheers

Nick

Which ones? I ordered the 450/400s, very good smoke if you're into Maduros. Just ordered a five pack sampler of the 375s. Let me know how you like them. j

Jorge,

Finally got my standing bench built and made it to the range today.

The lot of ammo I got from you is slow. Data is from 4 shots of each type of ammo:

480 DGX: 1965 FPS, ES 52, 96.8 grains of what looks like H4831SC

480 DGS: 2015 fps, ES 105, 97.4 grains of what looks like H4831SC

The box of 480 DGX ammo I bought new last year chronoed 2117 fps.

Jorge , I ordered the "wildman" torpedo 52 ring gauge . Will report back when I sample one.

Cheers
Nick

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Thanks, Nick. I'm starting to suspect the chrono a bit as often-times I use it without the screens if the sun is not out too much. The Hornady bullets are definitively the most accurate but the North Forks softs and solides and CEBs (softs) a very close second. Sun's over the yardarm, time to "Splice the Mainbrace"!

Jorge,

what kind/brand of ammo holder is shown in the picture ?

Morten

afp: I've gotten velocities all over the map too. I just ordered another box just to continue the experiment and I will report back. Bottom line is a lot of regulation issues can be attributed to inconsistant factory ammo. My rifle's sweet spot is definitively 2150-2175 fps.

Morten: Murray Custom Leather.

Also, the powder in the DGX round did not pour out smoothly. It stuck several times and I had to tap the cargo loosen it.

quote:

Originally posted by afp:
Jorge,

Finally got my standing bench built and made it to the range today.

The lot of ammo I got from you is slow. Data is from 4 shots of each type of ammo:

480 DGX: 1965 FPS, ES 52, 96.8 grains of what looks like H4831SC

480 DGS: 2015 fps, ES 105, 97.4 grains of what looks like H4831SC

The box of 480 DGX ammo I bought new last year chronoed 2117 fps.

I have to say, these numbers are in line with what I had expected as well and are reflective of the new ammo lots recently tested. Lots of data now to support the suggestion of a change in Hornady's NE loads.

Still, NEVER going to shoot a DGX bullet at anything capable of stomping or biting me however ... regardless of how fast it's moving!!

The DGS looks to be very well constructed with an extremely heavy jacket. Have there been reports of failures with the 480 DGS like happened with the Hornady solids of 30-40 years ago?