While talking to folks about doubles at DSC, learned about droplock vs fixed locks (I'm early in my double rifle education).

After the show, I came across the option below - WR makes a fixed lock double.

https://www.westleyrichards.co...ouble-rifles/boxlock

With the caveat that doubles are expensive, this was an interesting option to me.

The new Heym, fully kitted out, is around 30k. A new WR is around 85k, and this fixed lock WR is around 55k.

Given the production numbers, and what the 88b did over time, I think it would be tough to maintain value in a brand new Heym, but I would think (feel free to correct me) that buying a new WR would possibly have you close to whole in 10-15 years.

Like the price point difference in the fixed lock, and it seems like one less complication for a hunting rifle.

Anyone looked at these, understand the relative quality between the fixed and drop lock, long term value, etc?

Thanks

No matter what your choice, you can't go wrong with anything from WR--either new or vintage.

That said, I doubt you will recover your money on anything new should you decide to sell it in the near or far future. A new Corvette, new binocs, etc., will depreciate in value. I think a new double will also. But, if you're going to keep it forever, a bespoke double rifle is a fine way to spend your money.

I don't own any new rifles, only pre WWII doubles gets me hot. There are some fine values out there on vintage doubles.

You may want to glance at my book, The Double Rifle Primer, to answer any questions you may have regarding double rifles. It's on my website, <calpappas.com> A few folks here on AR have bought it and I have zero negative comments.
Cheers,
Cal

Recouping your money on any new double in a timeframe you will survive shouldn't even be a consideration.
Seems to me that new British doubles are either for the very wealthy or the man who wants THE gun to live out his days with.
There are a few very nice vintage Westleys on the market around the $20-25K mark.

I do have your book Cal, I need to get started on reading it!

You asked about the quality of Westley Righards fixed lock and drop-lock double rifles. Quality of both are equally superb.

The drop-lock has the advantage of allowing rapid user access to the locks. This can be handy in cleaning and repair. If a extra set of locks is ordered then a malfunctioning lock can be replaced in the field and repaired later. The "Drop-Lock" cachet makes those rifles more desirable to some.

The fixed lock, I have been told, leaves more metal in the frame and, therefore, is theoretically stronger. I do not know if that is the case but both types of actions, drop and fixed, are certainly strong enough. If you neither need nor want the ability to drop your locks then you can put the cost difference to use to upgrade engraving, get a fancier stock, order a fancy fitted gun case, or increase the quarter and dime count in your "going hunting" jar.

As you surmised, either Westley Richards double rifle will increase in value over time substantially more than a Heym double.

What Huvius said is correct about new versus used. However, there are two advantages to a new, bespoke, rifle or gun. First, you can have it made with the options, accessories, wood, and style you choose. Second, you can have it made to your dimensions. That is a very real advantage, especially on a rifle you will want to come up with a natural point of aim.

Thanks very much Grenadier. Have heard the droplock could be a liability in the field with the risk of it coming open.

Appreciate the info.

I think that's an unfounded worry. The only way that thing is coming open is if the catch breaks or is depressed, AND the forend is removed.

You can buy a good used WR 12 gauge drop lock for about $10K. I almost and should have acquired one about 2 years ago.
Really neat system. I really admired the fit of the dolls head into the receiver. Amazing how they fit that part prior to CNC machinery.
Shotgun fit me like a glove. Oh well. If it would have had two triggers it might be in my safe today.
That being said, I scratch my head on why the rifle is that much more expensive??
I suppose it is what the market will bear.
Beautiful firearms!
Always had a WR drop lock 500NE on my wish list.

EZ

Why is a vintage WR rifle more expensive than a WR shotgun? Simply supply, there aren't near as many vintage WR rifles as shotguns. There is also a good deal more work during manufacturing.

I've had a prewar WR droplock rifle apart. Simply stunning. They used a whole array of jigs to help them in filing and broaching the actions, I still found the integral hinge pin amazing.

Martini gunmakers in Canada has a beautiful W.R. fixed lock .450-400 right now at $15,000 usd. At $17,500 after import it is still a great value.

I was going to send this one to Cal and get his thoughts. Had a dealer at DSC tell me he'd pay 50-55 for a rifle like this.

Wonder how big the depreciation in when you go new.

http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100746152

quote:

The new Heym, fully kitted out, is around 30k. A new WR is around 85k, and this fixed lock WR is around 55k.

Given the production numbers, and what the 88b did over time, I think it would be tough to maintain value in a brand new Heym, but I would think (feel free to correct me) that buying a new WR would possibly have you close to whole in 10-15 years.

No. Too short a time span. Look at Purdey sidelocks from that period and the price they sell for.

Buy the thing because you have the money and want it and want to enjoy it. If you want something that you're looking at that'll hold its value over the short term buy something else.

DRs and best seidelock shot guns are an indulgence. Bought new they are a poor investment in the short term. Your kids and grand kids will love you. But I doubt in your lifetime you will see back what you paid for it.

Gentlemen all makes of double rifles five or ten years down the road after purchase are simply used guns and are bought at used gun prices! When a new WR BEST double was bought new in say 1932 and sold in 10K range in 1940 it would have sold for around 8K as a used rifle. As time passes however that same rifle today would carry a price tag of around 45K depending on condition and decoration up to 80K today.

Anything new sold before it becomes rare or is of a discontinued model will be at a discount after only a few years! That also applies to new rifle in the bespoke versions will follow the same slide in price in the first 10 years or so, and once a new version is made by that company, anything before will take a dip in price even new.

However look at a double made today like the new rifle from Heym, already the used price on the older model has dropped in popularity, and hence will sell as a used double rifle at it's trade in value on a new model.

The depreciation for Corvette mentioned by Call is true for the last five years models, but try to buy a first year Corvette with all matching numbers for less than you could buy it when it as only five years old! I think you get the point! Once something becomes a collectors item no matter what it is the price goes up, up, up! I have a little single shot .22 that was made in 1960s for e very short time and sold at the exorbitant price of $35 USD in 1960 is now selling for $500- $750 depending on which the two address where it was made.

Rarity, and condition sets the price. I bought a cased H&H double rifle in 1958 for $900 simply because ammo or components were not available. I never fired that rifle and it was my first double rifle, finally sold it to a collector in El Paso Texas for $900. Wish I had that rifle today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..................................................................

Been there and done that MAC! Had a .450/.400 2 3/8" and later a .300 Sherwood. No ammunition. Sold them. Wish I hadn't!

quote:

Originally posted by 10generation:
While talking to folks about doubles at DSC, learned about droplock vs fixed locks (I'm early in my double rifle education).

After the show, I came across the option below - WR makes a fixed lock double.

https://www.westleyrichards.co...ouble-rifles/boxlock

With the caveat that doubles are expensive, this was an interesting option to me.

The new Heym, fully kitted out, is around 30k. A new WR is around 85k, and this fixed lock WR is around 55k.
...

Considering the taxes and overhead costs businesses in the UK have to deal with - that is actually a relatively "reasonable" price.

After talking with a few friends who live and own businesses in the UK, it is clear to me that the US government has no idea how to properly tax its populace.

I am grateful for their incompetence.


.

quote:

Originally posted by 10generation:
While talking to folks about doubles at DSC, learned about droplock vs fixed locks (I'm early in my double rifle education).

After the show, I came across the option below - WR makes a fixed lock double.

https://www.westleyrichards.co...ouble-rifles/boxlock

With the caveat that doubles are expensive, this was an interesting option to me.

The new Heym, fully kitted out, is around 30k. A new WR is around 85k, and this fixed lock WR is around 55k.

Given the production numbers, and what the 88b did over time, I think it would be tough to maintain value in a brand new Heym, but I would think (feel free to correct me) that buying a new WR would possibly have you close to whole in 10-15 years.

Like the price point difference in the fixed lock, and it seems like one less complication for a hunting rifle.

Anyone looked at these, understand the relative quality between the fixed and drop lock, long term value, etc?

Thanks

Whilst the Westley box lock is a top grade rifle, $55G only gets you the most basic modern Westley. Heym offer the grade 3 with plenty of extras at around $33 which will appeal to more punters than the WR

quote:

Originally posted by 10generation:
long term value, etc?

Drop lock will cost you more going in and get you more going out. But I would think, dollar for dollar, it would work out to the same amount of appreciation for the boxlock. The only difference is that it may be easier to find a buyer for the drop lock, but I'm guessing there.

I sent you a PM.

Interesting thread.

I ordered myself a new 500 drop lock 3 yrs ago from WR. Built exactly as I want it to my dimensions etc.
The price on a similar new rifle today has increased some 20%.
Wait time is still 3yrs +
Total production af All guns still sits at 35 pa including shotguns,bolt rifles and double rifles.

I'd say I could recoup my outlay without too much problem.

Will be seeing it in person at the factory in a couple of weeks time!

It will be blooded in May on a Namibian bull ele!

Cheers

Nick

Looking on gunsinternational, interesting to see WR rifles that have some age with asking price similar or even higher than what a new one costs today. Trying to make sense of the market for this maker, but not figuring it out.

That link I put earlier in the thread, used (new) rifle and they are asking the same as a new bespoke rifle. I guess the belief is that saving three years is worth rifle not being built to you personally.

Hard to understand some kind of value curve - age vs price.

quote:

Originally posted by 10generation:
I guess the belief is that saving three years is worth rifle not being built to you personally.

Hard to understand some kind of value curve - age vs price.

I would take that as a consideration if I was purchasing such a rifle.
Three plus years of extra use would be quite important for my attempt to wear it out

If you have to think about the resale value, you probably should save your money. If you can spend $55,000 on a toy without your accountant calling in a panic then proceed.

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
If you have to think about the resale value, you probably should save your money. If you can spend $55,000 on a toy without your accountant calling in a panic then proceed.

..................................................................AMEN!