I thought you may be interested in the bullets from my recent Elephant and Buffalo. The one on the left went 29" inches through the brain of the elephant from the front and was found in the first vertebrae. The one on the right went through the buffalo's chest from the front.

The rifle was an Evans 470 and velocity was approximately 2075fps.

That vertebrae will stop most bullets on frontal shots. 500 grains had a 500 Nitro 570 grain bullet stop in the neck vertebrae.

465H&H

The Woodleigh Solid in 416 Rigby I used to take an Elephant in May in the Caprivi exhibited some fishtail as well, but not to the extreme of your one example. A side, sightly quartering-on brain shot dropped him in his tracks. The bullet penetrated the skull transversely and was found under the skin in the ear. Despite the fishtail tendency, the bullet did all it had to do.

quote:

That vertebrae will stop most bullets on frontal shots.

Doesn't have to be a frontal shot! It'll stop most anything.

465H&H
Was 500 Grains shooting Woodleighs in his 500?


Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
465H&H
Was 500 Grains shooting Woodleighs in his 500?


Dutch

No, it was a GS Custom FN solid. That is the main reason why I say that that bone can stop any bullet.

465H&H

In the same vein an article in the latest issue of African Hunter got me to thinking about solids veering in elephants. The article written by S.J. Edwards, with extensive experience culling elephant and buffalo in Zimbabwe, details a many cases of solid bullets doing strange things in animals. The up shot was that he felt that bullets that hit hard bones a glancing blow were more likely to veer off course. His theory coincides with what I have seen in my much more limited experience. Picture a solid bullet hitting a heavy bone like the shank portion of an elephant femur or humerus. The bullet hits straight on the middle of the bone and penetrates to some depth depending on a multitude of factors. As the bullet penetrates the bone and the resistance exerted by the bone on the bullet is equal on all sides of the circumference of the bullet. The bullet penetrates in a straight line to its maximum depth. Now picture a bullet that only hits a glancing blow to the same bones. Now the resistance only bears on the part of the bullet that contacts the bone. For instance if the bullet contacts the bone on its right side, the right side slows down faster then the left side. In that case the bullet must start to tumble and most likely veer off course. Nose shape will have very little if anything to do the result of this unequal pressure on the bullet. Now this theory makes logical sense but that in it self doesn't make it fact.

465H&H

quote:

500 grains had a 500 Nitro 570 grain bullet stop in the neck vertebrae.

I did point out to him that the 540gr bullet is better in a 500NE. 540gr is what John Harris uses in his 500NE. When bullets are used as we recommend, veering becomes a non issue.
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/johnharrisele.html
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/johnharris.html

Vertabrae are one of the hardest bones in a body.

I did a test once (to test a theory of what someone had said), firing a 570gn into the jaw of a Buffalo from 10 feet. It went through the first jaw (at the curve at the rear of the mouth) and hit dead centre on the curve on the other side and was stopped having gone in about half way though.


465
I agree, glancing a bone on the side of a bullet could divert the bullet.

I know a solid hitting dead centre of most bones (femur etc) will punch a nice neat hole through it (Ref Bull Buffalo).

.

I have used many woodleigh solids and they always got the job done, a little fishtailing and such isn't the monster it is made out to be in print..Woodleighs have been killing elephants for decades..

GS Customs flat nose solid is an awesome solid and you reload every one that I have recovered. I spent my younger years pleading with the bullet companies to make a Keith type solid for rifles as they work so well in pistols and old Winchesters, but it fell on deaf ears with some well known bullet makers who said it was folley.

GS customs sent me some to try out, and I have been a 110% GS Customs fan since that time many moons ago..

What is the deal with the fish tale deformation? What causes that to happen?

quote:

Originally posted by Bryce Dillabough:
What is the deal with the fish tale deformation? What causes that to happen?

Tumbling. The bullet struck the bone sideways.

This seems to happen to a fair percentage of RN solids when they have lost most of the velocity. That bullet traveled a reported 29" through the skull and brain before striking the vertibrae, and it started out at the modest velocity of 2075fps. So sometime after the bullet had done its job and had slowed considerably, it began to tumble before striking the vertibrae.

I have maybe a half dozen that have similarly flatenned and split, all recovered from elephants after shots to the brain, some side brain shots, some frontal. Without hitting some bone they exhibit flattening and maybe some mild bending, but rarely it seems do the split without hitting something pretty solid, like the vertibrae or the ball joint at the head/neck junction or the off side zygomatic arch. My Woodleighs are .458" and run 2145fps at the muzzle.

JPK

Occasionaly a batch of jacket steel is too brittle. I think that is why we sometimes see the jacket split and other times it just bends. I had one 550 grain Woodleigh from a 458 Lott come apart. I sent the bullet to Geoff at Woodleigh and the tests showed that the steel used was too brittle. Also I had one 470 grain Woodleigh bend after hitting the off side humerus of a large bull elephant. It still penetrated as far and as straight as another that hit within inches of it but missed the bone.

465H&H