I have read some posts where guys have had their double "double" on them. Does this happen when the trigger finger hits the back trigger during recoil or is it something that happens inside the gun during recoil? Forgive my ignorance.

The smart a$$ answer would be yes. While it is possible for the second sear not to fully engage, be worn or other issue that could allow it to slip and fire under recoil. Doubling is often related to finger contact with the rear trigger under recoil. Many simply fire the rear barrel first to help eliminate the possiblity.

It can happen both ways. I have experienced the first method with my old Merkel 500NE and it was not pleasant!

As above, can happen both ways.

My 500/465 Doubled when I first got it, during the test session before it went to the gunsmith for the "once over".

I have also doubled a DR by accident when my finger hit the rear trigger.

.

Interesting......perhaps this is why my Searcy has such excessive creep on the rear trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Bogle:
I have read some posts where guys have had their double "double" on them. Does this happen when the trigger finger hits the back trigger during recoil or is it something that happens inside the gun during recoil? Forgive my ignorance.

Tim, most times the so-called doubling is caused by what is called "strumming" the rear trigger when firing the front trigger. This is caused by a loose hold on the pistol grip, and poor trigger engagement by the trigger finger.

This is not a simultaneous discharge but rather a very close right, then left firing of the barrels. This will not usually hit the target with both barrels, or at least the second (left barrel) will hit much higher than the right barrel because it fires after the recoil arch has already started.

If, however, the rifle does actually have a simultaneous discharge then the rifle needs repairing, because the sear engagement of the offending barrel is not engaging properly. IN this case both barrels will usually hit at the same elevation but will be crossing shortly after leaving the muzzles.

The fix taken by most people, of the "STRUMMING" is to just pull the back trigger first because it is not a malfunctioning sear. That works, but a better solution is to learn how to hold the rifle properly, and to practice engaging the front trigger with a more positive grip, and with the hand holding the pistol grip solidly.

Hope that helps and answers your question.

This tire has been re-tread a few times!

Usually the trigger problem.

Solved by pulling the rear trigger first.

Do not listen to the likes of MacD.

Thank you gentlemen.

Just had a double rifle shoot 10 days ago. We had two individuals who thought they had a double/double. Photos confirmed that their finger slipped from the front trigger onto the rear trigger and caused a consecutive boom/boom. This is probably more prevalent that a gun malfunction, although both can happen.

Front trigger first regardless of what some say, practice and concentration will prevent doubling. It's rarely mechanical and instead usually as mdstewart related.

The simple solution is to just not cock the hammer on the left barrel until after you fire the right! You should have plenty of time while waiting for the smoke cloud to clear anyway.

That said, the one time I've doubled a double was with my hammerless 8-bore. I think I'll wait a few more years to let makers work the bugs out of those modern internal hammer guns before I try another.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:
the one time I've doubled a double was with my hammerless 8-bore.
Bob

When you look down, do you now see your butt or belly button?
Can't imagine what that must have been like!

quote:

The simple solution is to just not cock the hammer on the left barrel until after you fire the right! You should have plenty of time while waiting for the smoke cloud to clear anyway.

I used my Grandfathers old American double 12 with hammers when I was in Highschool. The guts were worn enough that about once a box it would double. Didn't take many times before it was a single shot. Can't imagine a 8 bore doubling.

Doc, the only plus side was that I was using smokeless and roundball loads, which are much much less punishing that conicals and BP. Also, I'd just finished shooting a 4-bore, which is what this felt like. The worst part was knowing it was all my fault from having a sloppy grip.

With my hammer 8 I cock both if I only have the right loaded to keep myself honest and have never had a repeat. If both are chambers are loaded its still one at a time unless I'm feeling lucky!

Bob

Front trigger first. Release grip and slide back to the rear trigger AFTER THE RECOIL not during the recoil.

You go ahead and listen to these front-trigger-first types and you might get yourself killed.

FRESH CURMUDGEON CAKES !!!! Come and get 'em!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
You go ahead and listen to these front-trigger-first types and you might get yourself killed.

Explain how you will get killed please. If you hold gun properly you will never double pulling the front trigger first. Front trigger first is the way to shoot a double. I've been shooting a SXS for 40 years and never doubled one. Even shooting a 577 a lot.

Sam

Sam,
Pay no heed! He get's confused if it's got more than 1 trigger.

At Will's age, if it had 2 triggers, he'd have to tape the instructions on the buttstock !!!!!

I have doubled two DR's to date,I shoot a fair amount of double rifles,
nobody has mentioned the L.O.P,on both the rifles that I doubled the length of pull was more than what I shoot,I have never doubled a rifle that fit me well.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
At Will's age, if it had 2 triggers, he'd have to tape the instructions on the buttstock !!!!!

LOL, Very good.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
You go ahead and listen to these front-trigger-first types and you might get yourself killed.

It . . . it . . . it pains me to say so, but there is a lot of truth to what Bill says. I have never doubled a double rifle at the range. I have doubled a double rifle twice hunting elephant. When you are standing 15 yards from an elephant that turns and looks at you with their ears out, you can get a little excited. The notion of a nice calm squeeze of the trigger is great in theory but tough in the heat of the moment. In both cases I strummed the rear trigger and the rifle (two different rifles) fired twice. After the second experience, I started using the rear trigger first. When on a subsequent elephant hunt we experienced a charge, I fired the rear trigger first and needed the other barrel. A double would have possibly gotten someone hurt.

All the talk of technique, grip, this that and the other is wonderful at the range or if you are hunting something that does not hunt back but do not discount the value of using the rear trigger first.

If you tend to strum the triggers then maybe you should get a single trigger gun. I think the best way to overcome the strumming is to get a SXS shotgun and shoot it a lot for practice. Many people not familar with doubles will be the ones that double strum. Also sear engagement might need to be checked if you really have a problem with your gun doubling. The back trigger really doesn't need to be very light in pull weight.

Sam

I'm only guessing but I assume you guys don't want to hear me complain about always being right.

quote:

I'm only guessing but I assume you guys don't want to hear me complain about always being right. Smiler

But...but...AR would not be the same!!!!

One single back up vote doesn't make a majority!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
One single back up vote doesn't make a majority!

Instead of one person/one vote maybe we should go with one vote per elephant in the salt.

Why not just learn how to shoot a Double Rifle properly and not worry about shortcuts?

Perhaps a shorter lop will help your fingers go where the rifle maker designed them to go?

I did not realize that there was one proper way to shoot one. I wonder if the animals that die realize that they have been shot with an improper and embarrassing shortcut?

For one thing I can't walk and chew gum at the same time. I did not grow up shooting a double trigger shotgun. I even hated the pump shotgun as being to complicated!

If accidentally pulling the rear trigger after pulling the front trigger isn't bad enough I couldn't remember to pull the rear trigger after first firing with the front trigger.

I practiced and practiced on the sheet range with a double trigger shotgun but when the SHTF it is just all talk.

As is typical in the heat of the moment, I kept trying to pull the front trigger. A cow ele was about to step on me once as I struggled to keep firing, just pulling again and again that front trigger.

For whatever reason it seemed more natural to me to pull the front trigger (LOP or whatever) so I started pulling the rear trigger first. Then pulling the front trigger second came subconsciously.

So it was not just the strumming problem in my case but the double trigger deficiency! Pulling the rear-trigger-first solved the problem, for me anyway.

Until of course I started shooting a single-trigger double, then I didn't have to give a crap about what trigger first?

If you are not afflicted with double trigger deficiency then more power to you. But until it comes down to saving your own hide with your double, do you really know what you will do?

There was a poster here for some time that talked the talk, shot double trigger shotguns all his life, and bad mouthed me about this rear-trigger-first stuff. But when a tuskless cow came charging in to whip his ass, he strummed his double trigger double like a broken down Gibson. Of course the PH had to bail out the intrepid hunter.

Ha!

I suspect for every time someone failed to go to the rear trigger after firing the first trigger there are an equal number that failed to go to the front trigger after firing the back trigger first. Shooters not use to two trigger guns just keep pulling the trigger that they just pulled like they do on their Benneli duck guns.

465h&H

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Gator1:
Why not just learn how to shoot a Double Rifle properly and not worry about shortcuts?

Perhaps a shorter lop will help your fingers go where the rifle maker designed them to go?

quote:

Origenally posted by MJines:
I did not realize that there was one proper way to shoot one. I wonder if the animals that die realize that they have been shot with an improper and embarrassing shortcut?

Mike

Both are correct! Gator1 is right the proper way to shoot a double rifle is frnt trigger first,because it will usually regulate better for a long shot.

Mike Jines is correct, as well, because up close where you shoot elephant, and some times lion, and Buffalo, it makes absolutely no difference which you pull first, because at 15 yds both barrels are going to be as close as can be expected when shooting very quickly to stop a stomping, hooking, or mauling if the first shot doesn't end it all.

Still if shooting the front trigger first is done all the time, then it becomes "muscle memory" and is done without haveing to think about it at all. Then we have guys like Will! In this very rare case a single trigger is indicated!

So for Gator1, front first is the way, For Mike, rear trigger is best for his hunting, while with WILL a better choice would be a simi-auto 458 LOTT would work better, but barring that his choice of a single trigger is best for him, but that's a damn ugly thing to do to a big bore double rifle!

Since my first firearm was a SxS shotgun with two triggers I am not having a problem remembering that my rifle has two triggers.

There is no thought in volved, I just know that there is a second trigger behind the first one.

Same as driving cars. I drive my truck the most and it has an automatic transmission. But when I get in my Jeep there is no thought involved in using it's clutch and shifting manually.

quote:

Originally posted by Muletrain:
Since my first firearm was a SxS shotgun with two triggers I am not having a problem remembering that my rifle has two triggers.

There is no thought in volved, I just know that there is a second trigger behind the first one.

Same as driving cars. I drive my truck the most and it has an automatic transmission. But when I get in my Jeep there is no thought involved in using it's clutch and shifting manually.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Muletrain:
Since my first firearm was a SxS shotgun with two triggers I am not having a problem remembering that my rifle has two triggers.

There is no thought in volved, I just know that there is a second trigger behind the first one.

Same as driving cars. I drive my truck the most and it has an automatic transmission. But when I get in my Jeep there is no thought involved in using it's clutch and shifting manually.

But therein lies the key as you, Lane and others have pointed out ...

Being so familiar with the practice that it is as natural as rubbing your eye when it itches.

If you have to think about doing it, you'll get yourself in trouble.

Prove it!

A few years ago I was shooting in a Sporting Clays tournament when my Scottish hammer gun had a mechanical problem and I had to use a backup Beretta side by side with a single trigger. I missed second shots on the next 6 rotations because I kept pulling the trigger guard for the second shot, with no effort.

I would not know what to do without double triggers and in wing shooting I can select which trigger to pull first based upon the shot at hand without ever thinking about it.

I haven't shot at a charging elephant, but I would be more confident with a double trigger gun I'm familiar with than a bolt gun with a single trigger.

Mike

I watched my buddy double(strum) a 600 NE the other day. Man did he look suprised. This morning he showed up with a new 16 gauge double. I guess he is going to learn to pull one trigger at a time be it front or back first.

Matthew

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Prove it!

Prove what?