I have been loading my 450/400 3.25 and noticed something very strange. I have found that my right barrel is tight at the breech. I ran some new brass through my dies and while drop-testing them to be sure of a smooth fit I find that my right barrel will not allow the final 1/2 inch of the brass to drop in. I have never noticed this before and am wondering if it is normal or goofy or something wrong. I am perplexed to say the least.

Same dies, also tried some old brass I have been shooting a bunch and what I think is suddenly a tight barrel?
Frank

Frank

Does your rifle have ejectors or is it an extractor set up?

Frank it is not unusual to have one chamber to be a little tighter than the other.
Both of my British doubles are like that.

As long as it is not too bad, as in one of your chambers is buldged, I would not worry about it.

Just adjust your dies so the brass fits both chambers.

Did the brass that you've been shooting stick in the right breech as well? Also, does a loaded round stick as well?

Your cartridges not freely dropping in your chamber can be caused by several factors. I think many people put a round in their chamber, close the gun and if the gun closes they think it's fine. In reality, the closing of the gun will force an oversized round into the chamber or rifling unless the case is severely oversized and may result in a pressure problem.

The correct way to tell is to take the barrels off the gun, push in the extractor, and drop the cartridges in. If the cases/cartridges don't fall freely all the way in there is an issue.

I drop original Kynoch cartridges in when I first get an English Double. If they freely drop in I proceed to my reloads. If the reloaded rounds drop in freely I drop in fired cases and then switch chambers to see if one is oversize relative to the other.

One of mine had tight necks and would drop in very early Ely cartridges but not 50's vintage Kynoch. The problem was the Kynoch brass was thicker in the neck. My solution was to use Horneber Brass which had thinner case necks. This solved the issue.

My 500/465 dropped in original Kynoch but wouldn't drop in my reloads. In comparing the cases, the RCBS dies put the shoulder to far forward on the cases. I sent the dies back and had a custom set made that solved the issue.

I would start by dropping in original Kynoch and go from there. This process should help you find out if the issue is the chamber, the brass or your reloading equipment.

If the brass was not trimmed to the appropriate length it will sometimes cause a problem like this.

quote:

Originally posted by 470Evans:
Your cartridges not freely dropping in your chamber can be caused by several factors. I think many people put a round in their chamber, close the gun and if the gun closes they think it's fine. In reality, the closing of the gun will force an oversized round into the chamber or rifling unless the case is severely oversized and may result in a pressure problem.

The correct way to tell is to take the barrels off the gun, push in the extractor, and drop the cartridges in. If the cases/cartridges don't fall freely all the way in there is an issue.

I drop original Kynoch cartridges in when I first get an English Double. If they freely drop in I proceed to my reloads. If the reloaded rounds drop in freely I drop in fired cases and then switch chambers to see if one is oversize relative to the other.

One of mine had tight necks and would drop in very early Ely cartridges but not 50's vintage Kynoch. The problem was the Kynoch brass was thicker in the neck. My solution was to use Horneber Brass which had thinner case necks. This solved the issue.

My 500/465 dropped in original Kynoch but wouldn't drop in my reloads. In comparing the cases, the RCBS dies put the shoulder to far forward on the cases. I sent the dies back and had a custom set made that solved the issue.

I would start by dropping in original Kynoch and go from there. This process should help you find out if the issue is the chamber, the brass or your reloading equipment.

Excellent advice.

A friend of mine has a 450 WR. The Jamison brass base diameter is about 0.001" larger in diameter than the Bertram brass (though both are smaller than specs.) he normally uses but dislikes. But the chambers on his 450 are on the small side and the Jamison brass would not go freely all the way in, just the last 0.1".

This difference was noticed not from dropping the round in, but just gently pushing the round in with a finger. The Jamison rounds chambered and the rifle closed up easily but was hard to open.

If he was bent on using Jamison brass, the only solution would be to get a new set of dies made to squeeze down the base another couple thousandths. Or clean up the chambers, which I wouldn't do.

What a difference 0.001" can make.

Frank:

With DRs built for the original ammo (up through the early '70s) this is COMMON. I have one too.

Today's ammo is quite different from the ammo that your Osborne was built for and used with, especially so the brass. The dimensions of original Kynoch flanged nitro factory ammo were generally held well under max cartridge so that it would function readily in most rifles. Also, the brass was much thinner, and sprang back after firing more readily. Today's ammo is made much closer to max cartridge, and the brass is thick and heavy. All kinds of problems can arise from that difference in rifles that functioned perfectly before. The most common is correct spec ammo that won't chamber. In the beginning of the new Kynoch concern, David Little had many instances of new CIP spec ammo not chambering in rifles built for the original ammo. Many assume that something is wrong with gun, or that it has been damaged somehow, when there actually isn't anything wrong with it at all. Some guns are just tighter than others, and that means that some modern brass simply isn't going to work in them.

Like I said, the difference can result in a variety of problems. A good friend has a nice .500/.465 from the late '20s - a great rifle that hasn't been diddled with. With Cordite Kynoch from 1966, it regulated and functioned flawlessly. With STARTING loads in new Horneber brass, the gun was extremely difficult to open. Once forced open, it wouldn't eject either. The cases were stuck tight, and had to be pounded out with a cleaning rod. We suspected that the brass wasn't springing back enough, so it was returned as defective and new Bell brass obtained. Exact same result. Cordite Kynoch was then tried again. It still functioned flawlessly with original ammo, but was virtually non-functional with modern brass. Off it went to J. J., who ran the bore scope in and found that the reamer had left a tiny ridge in the chamber neck that he had missed before. No problem at all for the thin brass of the original ammo, but it was enough to shut the rifle completely down with thick, modern brass. He cleaned up the necks with a reamer, and the rifle works with anything now.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

An Osborne! Should have said so.

Didn't know Ozzie made DR's. Check the barrels for obstructions like bat heads.Could also be the powder - I hear that these models favor certain kinds of powder.

If that does not work, I will take the defective rifle off your hands. I would not want you injuring yourself.

stopping 1/2" out won't be trim length

quote:

Originally posted by Showbart:
stopping 1/2" out won't be trim length

Good point.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martinez:
I ran some new brass through my dies and while drop-testing them to be sure of a smooth fit I find that my right barrel will not allow the final 1/2 inch of the brass to drop in.

Since this is with new brass sized in dies that have worked with this rifle before, it's the brass. If this is full length resized new brass and you're able to get the case all the way into the die, then it isn't a base diameter issue, as this cartridge has too much body taper for excessive base diameter to make it hang up a 1/2" out. Excessive neck OD would certainly do it, though.

If you're sizing with the expander in place, that will keep ID of the neck constant, but not OD. REMOVE the expander, and resize again. If the case then drops into the chamber with no thumb pressure required, then the wall thickness in the neck of the brass is too thick, and they'll probably have to be turned. If it does drop in, then seat a bullet, and try that in the chamber. Sometimes just sizing without the expander and then seating the bullet normally is enough to do the trick, and it's worked for me a couple times, but you'll probably have to turn them down.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Thanks for all the great information.
It is the new brass as it did not ever happen with my older WR
or Bell or HDS.
The rifle has extractors and not ejectors. It has worked perfectly till now. I did check for bulging and I did clean it again thoroughly as I had thought maybe that was it as well.
I adjusted the dies a couple of times but need to stop that as I got a couple of dimples. Cleaned the dies thinking there was a buildup of brass lube.
Removing the expander did help as they are almost dropping in completely now.
The Jameson brass is thicker but the rim seems to be the same and even a little thinner than the HDS.
One thing I did notice is that the "shoulder" if you can call it that is set very far back on the new brass and needs pulling forward my the expander. I am wondering if that is causing a swelling of the case at the rim. I will have to Mic some tomorrow when I can see a little better.
Thank you everyone. I will let you know after I mess with them some more tomorrow. I really hope I don't have to turn them.

Frank

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martinez:
Removing the expander did help as they are almost dropping in completely now.

I thought so.

quote:

I really hope I don't have to turn them.

Yeah, it's a pain. Damned long neck, too.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Frank
Do not worry about the shoulder being set too far back, unless you have some brass seperations on firing.

Some of the Brass I got for my 450/400 3 1/4" was like that. It just fireforms out when shot.

It was Bertram and the shoulder was WAY back.

Are you shooting .408 or .411 diameter bullets.

I think Woodleigh is now making .410 diameter as well.

I have been shooting the Woodleigh .408 and have been thinking of trying some .410's in lead for plinking. I wish I had .411 as there are lots of bullets becoming available for the .411.
Frank