The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles I took the plunge!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| I took the plunge! | Login/Join |
One of Us |
Okay, I said I was never going to do this but I got to watching Todd and CCMDoc with their 577s, big ass CEB#13s as well as that darn Ivan Carter/Heym video and I knew I had to have a 500 NE. Talked to Todd yesterday about the 500. He and Pierre van der Walt assure me I can handle the recoil. Pierre says the 500 "is an eminently manageable firearm at 101/2 pounds." So, I called Mark at First Stop Guns in Rapid City and worked out a trade with him. Tomorrow, my beloved 470 Blaser S2 is off to Rapid City in trade for an as new Krieghoff 500. As I said, when the chips are down, for me it's a K-gun, a Heym, and I would add a VC but the $8,200 K-gun is clearly the best buy. It has a 14.5 LOP and weighs right around 101/2 pounds. Oh yea, it doesn't NEED intercepting sears.  However I have also covered my bets. I am going to get the 500 here and shoot it a bit. I have already talked to Don at Krieghoff International in Ottsville, PA. If the 500 bites too much, I can send it to Don and he will put a Krieghoff Break-O recoil reducer in it. That would add about 14 ounces and put it a bit over 11 pounds. I'll keep you posted. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | ||
|
One of Us |
I can almost see the look of surprise followed by the smile of satisfaction after that first shot  Good on you and have GREAT fun  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
One of Us |
Congrats; keep us informed how it goes! Shame it wasn't a 577NE  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
|
| One of Us |
Dave, Hey you know that CEB makes a 475 grain non con and matching 510 grain solid that I had Dan make for me. I used the 475 gr non con in Australia on buffalo and found it more effective than the 535 grain non con. The recoil is much less with these lighter weight bullets. These bullets exited on broadside shoulder shots on big buffs. I think CEB is also going to make a 350 grain in .510 diameter soon. You will enjoy your 500 I'm sure. Sam | |||
|
One of Us |
Congrats Dave. I enjoyed speaking to you yesterday and I'm confident you're going to love that caliber. It's simply the best of all worlds where double rifles are concerned! | |||
|
one of us |
I have to agree with that! The 500NE is one of the best chamberings you can pick for a double rifle. It is as big as you NEED, and yet still reatively light to carry all day, and is small enough that it is a good choice if a 150 yard shot presents its self on something like a big Eland or zebra. The K-gun is also a plus! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Dave, Let me know how the comparative recoil is to the .470 Please. I have been mulling over the .500 but don't know if I'm up to it. Rick | |||
|
| One of Us |
Will do. Give me about 7-10 days. I have a friend who has dies and cases for a 500 but doesn't have a 500 anymore. He also has some 570 grain bullets. I'll trade him some 470 bullets and he is going to load a few rounds for me so we can see what it is like. If it's too much, it's off to PA for the Break-O reducer. I'll try 94 grains of Reloder 15. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
| One of Us |
Dave, Nice step up in the world of double rifles. The Kreighoffs are notorious for being accurate and well balanced. I think you'll like the safety / combi cocker (most do once they get used to them). I like the .500 as well, although I prefer the .470. Having shot both of them ALOT, I prefer the recoil of the .470. Find some nice 75% handloads in the .500, and it will be a pleasure to practice with. Congratulations. Mike JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
|
One of Us |
Dave, thanks for buying this rifle,you kept me out of the poorhouse,that was a good rifle at a great price  DRSS | |||
|
One of Us |
Congratulations, Don! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
|
one of us |
Dave: I'll be watching this thread closely. Sam, I failed to notice the implications of lighter weight mono bullets in a .500, assuming they regulate. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
|
| One of Us |
I posted the numbers on another thread while conversing with Dave. The actual free recoil difference between a 500NE and 470NE is equal to an additional 1/2 of the recoil of a 243 Win. assuming identical weight guns. Hardly worth noting. If you handle a 470NE, there is no reason to not be able to handle a 500NE. There really is no perceivable difference in recoil other than psyching yourself out. It would be interesting to do "the Pepsi challenge" with two identical guns, one in 470 and one in 500. Have someone load and hand them to you. You shoot and call the caliber based on recoil. Bet you couldn't tell them apart under those circumstances! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Bill, I loaded the 570s and 535s with 97 grs of RL-15 which is a normal regulating load for the 500NE. The 475s and 510s I loaded with 100 grs of RL-15. They all shot in a wad at 50 yards from my Sabatti. In my VC the 475s and 510s need a different load as it is heavier and didn't move as much with the lighter bullets. I think I could up the load a little and bring them together in the VC. Just haven't had time to fool with it in that gun. All the bullets I'm talking about here are the CEB BBW#13s. Sam | |||
|
| One of Us |
Dave, How's the 500 shoot? Skip Nantz | |||
|
| One of Us |
Excellent! Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
| one of us |
I strongly agree with this... I can tell no discernible difference between a .500 NE and a .470. | |||
|
One of Us |
Dave, ENJOY it! All the best...  D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
| one of us |
That is a matter of opinion! The 577NE doesn't kill any better than the 500NE with equal shot placement! The 500NE can be made lighter, and penetrates better as well! I've had both and I much prefer the 500NE than anything larger! Congratulations Dave! ........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hardly worth noting? I shot them both and agree that the .500 NE is the better of the two performance-wise but I disagree completely with your assessment that their respective recoil generation is similar. The difference being equivalent to about half the recoil of a .243 Win is not what I felt. A .243 Win with a 100 gr bullet recoils about 8 ft-lbs while a .470 NE in a 10 lb rifle kicks about 71 ft-lbs versus a .500 NE in an equivalent rifle at about 84 ft-lbs, 13 ft-lbs which is about an 18% difference. To me, the .470 borders on unpleasant but tolerable while the .500 rattles my teeth loose. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Too light for the caliber!
| |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree with you completely!
| |||
|
| One of Us |
The old English doubles were built the correct weight for the calibers produced. Lately, manufacturers want to lighten up big bore doubles that will certainly make them uncomfortable to shoot. The old guns were built by people that knew their business. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'll have to try to remember that. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yes, hardly worth noting. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wow!  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
One of Us |
NOTE TO SELF: Do not post after imbibing on too many adult beverages. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
And here, I thought CCMdoc knew what he was talking about (still do). Nice catch on getting his quote posted before he could delete it  My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
|
| one of us |
Random Thoughts... I have shot a fair amount of game with the 450 No2, a 450/400 3 1/4" and 9,3x74R doubles, including several elephants, cape buff, lion, giraffe, and "smaller" game as well. I have fired most all the Nitro express calibres, including several different 500's a couple of 577's and a 600 Nitro. I do think most of the modern Doubles of 470 and up are too light for calibre. I do think the Original British doubles made back in the day, were mostly heavier, and they were of the proper weight. I have shot modern 470's and 500's side by side, and I "feel" the 500 kicks a lot more. In fact most of the 500's I have shot "hurt" me more than the 577's and the 600 Nitro I have shot. In fact the Heym 577 and 600 Nitros I have shot were not painful in any way. They did have a lot of back and up thrust, but it did not hurt to shoot them. They were not "painful" to shoot as some of the light 500 Nitros I have shot. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
One of Us |
Is that a mercury recoil reducer? If so, you might regret it when you want to fly to Africa - I was told recently they were not allowed on certain commercial airlines. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have now had a chance to ring the gun out and I don't intend to put a recoil reducer in it. Todd and Paul were right. It only weighs about 10.4 pounds but it's not hard to shoot at all. We had it out this past weekend shooting jugs. I was practicing shooting right and lefts to see how fast the recovery time was after the first shot to get on the second jug and get a shot off. You can shoot two pretty quick. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
| One of Us |
Excellent Dave, really excellent. Looking forward to reading of your successes with it in an upcoming safari whether in Australia or Africa. Happy for you my friend! NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| One of Us |
Dave, congrats on your new double. I have been watching this (and a few other related) threads for a while whilst i waited for my own .500 (V.C) to be delivered. Picked it up today ! Havn't shot it yet, can't wait. Got some you-beaut 535gn C.E.B # 13 handloads left to me by our very own Sam Rose to try out. Again, congrats on your new double the K-gun is a quality product (we've had quite a few through our camp in past years) that generally shoots very well and handles nicely. Cheers, Paul. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hmmm. I didn't realize this thread had progressed. I missed a lot of it while I was in Africa. I stand by my words earlier in that the only real difference in recoil between the 470 ad 500 is in psyching yourself out. The free recoil numbers ARE about the same as 1/2 the free recoil of a 243 Win with guns of normal weights. Reference: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm From this table, the 500NE rifle is 1 pound heavier than the 470 and the 243 is listed normally as well. In this table, the 470NE produces a recoil number of 69.3 and the 500NE 74.5. A difference of 5.2. The 243 with a 95gr bullet at 3100fps generates 11.0. 1/2 of 11.0 is 5.5. Very similar to the 5.2 difference between the 470 and 500. The one comment I will make however is that most 470s and 500s on the market today are about a pound lighter than listed here. If that "hurts" you, my opinion is that it's in your mind. But then we all perceive recoil differently. I still think most would fail the "Pepsi" challenge! Dave here is a good example. He was quite unsure of handling the 500. It now seems he has found a new favorite! Here's something I don't understand. I've always enjoyed debating things like this. Bantering topics of this nature around the campfire is great fun. Talking guns; and big bores at that! Good stuff. I enjoy a good, spirited, well defended debate; especially among experienced people who's knowledge base can really challenge my positions. Why it turns personal and invites vulgar comments just because someone thinks differently than you is beyond me. | |||
|
| one of us |
TODD, good reply! However the charts such as the one you listed do not always match the rifles you are holding in your hands! In your case, the .500NE Merkel you had is actually almost one pound lighter than the .470NE Merkel! This is because the outside measurement of all the barrels in the Safari Merkels, 375H&H,416 Jeff, 470NE, and 500NE, were the same with the only difference being a smaller or larger hole drilled through it’s bore. So the difference between the two Merkels in recoil is more than that chart lists. Having said that, I agree with you that the recoil of the .500NE is quite manageable, so if you can manage the ,470NE you can manage the 500NE as well, and as you say the key is getting your mind in line with what you are shooting. IMO the big difference between rifles in the 470NE 500NE class and the 577NE and 600NE is not the recoil as much as the weight of the rifle being not only heavy to carry all day on spoor, but the extra weight dampening the liveliness of it’s handling. Also IMO the guy who shoots bolt rifles in the 458LOTT and 460WBY class will find the .500NE, or .577NE double rifles much more pleasant to shoot, and certainly faster for the second shot if needed! I read your hunt report, and I'm envious! Good show Todd! Congratulations ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mac, it was a great trip. The best so far!! | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia