I would like some help loading this cartridge. This rifle is a late model hammerless Army Navy CSL on a Webly screw grip. Has Henry rifleing and for the 3 inch case. On the action is the loading data: 135 grains of powder, 440 grain bullet, 3 inch case. Any help in getting started loading for this rifle would be appreciated.

Get a copy of Graheme Wrights book Shooting the British Double Rifle! It'll lead you thru the steps. It's not a simple 1 recipe type of deal.

Thanks Mike. I should have mentioned that I have a copy of Wrights book and while good information it is pretty lean on the nitro for black loads and pressure data. Good place to start working. Just thought that some members may be shooting these guns/cartridges.

Have a look on NE forum.

Quite a few 500's were built on Greener actions
and I think the load data is on the forum.

Look for posts under the name "Marrakai".

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You might want to give it a try with Swiss FF and a paper patched bullet.

I load for a 500 Express chambered for 3.25 " cases. The old Eleys are thinner brass than the HDS brass I started using. Found that a seated bullet in a case would require pushing to get entire case to chamber- not good. I necked turned the HDS brass then the seated bullet in the case would easily chamber. This might not be a problem with you rifle and brass, but be aware in case. Unless you want black powder loads the black for nitro may group better. Suggestions slug the bore for diameter, probably is .510 but it is a good idea to check.
Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim M.:
I load for a 500 Express chambered for 3.25 " cases. The old Eleys are thinner brass than the HDS brass I started using. Found that a seated bullet in a case would require pushing to get entire case to chamber- not good.
Good luck!

Are you saying it wouldn't chamber unless pushed ?


Not good I agree but sounds to me like dirty chamber, too long brass - which I noticed you mentioned you trimmed the next lot and it worked fine.

Was that the cause ?

I have found English guns do not like long brass to I always trim so it
is well under length.
.
.

I've been useing Wright's NFB loads in my Lyell 500 BPE with damascus barrels and they are dead on.
Just make sure to use lots of dacron to fill the void. tamp it firm with a pencil, (eraser end)
Start low and watch your speeds and the groupings. If they cross left to right ect then you're too fast. I load 4 of each flavor then increase the powder as needed.

I don't want to intrude but I generally limit Swiss 3F up to 38-55 caliber. I found that loading 3F in my 45-70 really pushed BP pressures up, as well as velocity. I was more comfortable with 1 1/5 or Goex Cartridge in my 50-70's and 45-70's for what it is worth. Paper Patch is where it's at!

NO the problem was the neck of the brass being to thick. The brass length was Ok. Using cerrosafe I cast a mold of each chamber and found the right chamber 3" in was 0.536 and the left was 0.538". With the HDS brass with no neck turning the brass on each side was 0.015" so 0.510 bullet + 0.015 + 0.015" = 0.540" so I neck turned the brass to 0.010" on each side then the diameter loaded was 0.510 + 0.010 + 0010. = 0.530" Easy loading. Brass thickness, especially some of the newer brass, might cause a problem. If my memory serves correctly the older Eley brass measured around 0.010" or slightly less.
Does Hornady make .500 3.25 " brass? If so what is the neck thickness?

I would also send Accurate Arms podwer co. an email for info using thier 5744 powder. It requires no filler and has worked great for many, including myself, in the large volume b/p or nitro cases.

375ej
Try to get a copy of the Oct-Nov 2002 Handloader, # 219. Ross Seyfried's article "Loading the 500 Express" will tell you everything you need to know for both black and nitro for black. One of his suggested loads gives me excellent groups at both 50 and 100 yds with IMR 4198, just be sure to stuff as much dacron over the powder as you can, I use about 12 grains. If you can't get that issue of handloader shoot me a PM and I'll get you a copy from mine.
Best.

I have a copy of that article. If you can't get it elsewhere let me know and I'll photo copy it for you.

A little over a month ago, I acquired a H&H .500 BPE completed in 1890.

"Charge 5 Drams Case 3 1/4 Ins"

For this gun, the nitro for black regulation load has proven to be 52 gr. IMR 4198 behind a Woodleigh .510 dia. 440 gr RN with 7 gr. poly filler.

Killed a big fat doe 2 weeks ago.

Much thanks to Mr. Ken Owen in helping me with this project!!

Hope this is of interest.

Thank's DD and all. the information is helpful Was wondering how the Woodleigh 440gr soft nose would work It appears to be not too hard for these barrles. Also planning on trying some hard cast gas check flat nose bullets and see how they work out. Anybody using the Hawk bullets with 25 or 35 jacket? Also has anyone tried the varget data that Wright had tested?

The 440gn works well - a lot of people use it out of 500's (BP, N4B and Nitro) for shooting pigs etc. Works on deer / roos etc too !

It is softer than the 570gns but should handle everything as long as you aren't going after Cape Buffalo and Elephant !!!

Thank's for the information 500N. I'll try them and see how they do.

quote:

Originally posted by 375ej:
Thank's for the information 500N. I'll try them and see how they do.

What are you hunting with them ?

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Will use it on pigs, whitetail deer, and red deer. Someday it might get to Africa on plainsgame. Should be a nice shooter and powerful enough for what I intend to hunt with it.

I have only fired 2 shots through my 500BPE. I have been waiting 3 weeks for Cast Performance to heat up the lead and make some 435's. I turned down a pair of .585 hard cast bullets to .511, then cut them shorter to weigh 356.2grains. I loaded them over 53gr IMR4198 and 12gr Dacron. One from each barrel printed 1/2" apart at 12:00 at 25yds. I was most pleased!
Still waiting on bullets, so I have some questions.
1)Are the Woodleigh 440's safe in Damascus barrels?
2)I have been using foam wads in my 450BPE because it is so much easier than Dacron. Does the foam prevent chamber rings? Also, the gun seemed to shoot better groups with Dacron. Is this because it is packed tighter? Would hard felt wads work like Dacron, but easier to load?
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I think I am still on the subject...
Thanks, ND

What type of rifling does your Grant 500 have?

gatsby,
I will have to look at the rifling... I don't think it is Henry type, like my Harkom. I would assume it is like a Boss, as Stephen Grant was the production manager for Boss before he started his own company.
I'm not sure I am even qualified to evaluate rifling type. If you can offer education, that would be great! I am always trying to get smarter on this stuff.
Thanks, ND

Nitrodave

Rifling is hard to describe but I look at Henry rifling as being "not sharp" or a bit rounded as opposed to square cut edges.

Maybe that's my eye sight !!! or the USED guns I have looked at.

I think some pics exist on the web. Will have a quick Google.


I would err on the side of caution if anything (ie don't use Copper bullets
until you get a definitive answer).

.

Go to Google


Type in "henry rifling"

(My apologise if I am teaching you to suck eggs with this but better to spell it out than fly blind !!!)

Then make the page "Images" (instead of Everything, Videos etc)

The "Images" word is the 3rd one down from the top on the Left Hand Side on my Google.


This is what I got.
http://www.google.com.au/image...o=1&biw=1388&bih=639


A good pic of clean Henry rifling half way down this page
http://airgun-academy.pyramyda...g/tag/henry-rifling/


Hope that helps.

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500,
Thanks for the posting.

ND,
Henry rifling was designed for paper patched bullets. I have molds for two 500 bullets a paper patched original Henry and a Lyman. I use them for a 577/500.

I am familiar with Henry rifling, as my Harkom 450BPE has it. The only other type I know of is in modern fluid steel barrels. Is it called Ballard rifling?
I have only shot hard cast slugs in my 1870's Damascus barrels. What makes me ask is Ken Owens loaded 20 rounds for the prior owner with jacketed soft nose bullets. I have seen him use a lot of Hornady RN bullets, when he regulates a load. I don't think they even had jacketed bullets in 1879, did they?I pulled them. Kynoch also loads 440gr jacketed bullets in their .500 NFB rounds. I assume these are for fluid steel barrels.
Thanks, ND