.

or you can just get a dremel at home depot and grind the muzzle......

Are you for real? If so, stop drinking the bong water!!

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:
Are you for real?

Don't drink the bong water!!

Are you referring to the first post or the 2nd post ?

.

Terrific idea, and also post a copy in smithing section....I have a DR with some regulation issues....still trying different loads.
Thanks, TC

Roscoe... Cheap doubles have the crowns ground to regulate them...the problem with this is that it increases bullet instability. If you look at the targets you will often see that bullets have not been flying 100% true and there is a very slight keyhole effect- does this hurt? Only if you are shooting solids at elephant. The bullets tumble on impact and penetration is drastically reduced. With softs, the mushrooming bullets hold them mushroom forward.

In brief, grinding the muzzel of one or both barrels to get them to regulate is fine on a short range hog gun but a third rate way of doing things if you want long range accuracy or to ever take it hunting big stuff.

quote:

by DoubleDon Are you for real? If so, stop drinking the bong water!!

Don

[/QUOTE

[QUOTE]by 500N Are you referring to the first post or the 2nd post ?

quote:

by Tall Chief Terrific idea, and also post a copy in smithing section....I have a DR with some regulation issues....still trying different loads.
Thanks, TC

quote:

Originally posted by Don Heath:
Roscoe... Cheap doubles have the crowns ground to regulate them...the problem with this is that it increases bullet instability. If you look at the targets you will often see that bullets have not been flying 100% true and there is a very slight keyhole effect- does this hurt? Only if you are shooting solids at elephant. The bullets tumble on impact and penetration is drastically reduced. With softs, the mushrooming bullets hold them mushroom forward.

In brief, grinding the muzzel of one or both barrels to get them to regulate is fine on a short range hog gun but a third rate way of doing things if you want long range accuracy or to ever take it hunting big stuff.

Gentlemen the comment by Roscoe Was a toung-in-cheek joke aimed at the rescent Sabatti feasco. He is fully aware of the pit-falls of the grinding of the muzzles to attempt to regulate a double rifle!

Mac is back!

Mac,
I could hear you laughing.....

quote:

Originally posted by generalwar:
Mac is back!

generalwar, I'm just passing through!....BYE

Roscoe, these guys don't know you like we do at DRSS!

I was referring to dpcp's post at the top, not the grinding.
TC

I heard that Merkel put a brass or copper rod down the barrel a give a Pull to whichever side the umm impact needs to go

Don: I know you have the bona fides, but have you actually witnessed bullet tumbling from muzzle-ground doubles in heavy game? I hadn't heard of this before, but it makes some theoretical sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Heath:
Roscoe... Cheap doubles have the crowns ground to regulate them...the problem with this is that it increases bullet instability. If you look at the targets you will often see that bullets have not been flying 100% true and there is a very slight keyhole effect- does this hurt? Only if you are shooting solids at elephant. The bullets tumble on impact and penetration is drastically reduced. With softs, the mushrooming bullets hold them mushroom forward.

In brief, grinding the muzzel of one or both barrels to get them to regulate is fine on a short range hog gun but a third rate way of doing things if you want long range accuracy or to ever take it hunting big stuff.

You just put into words what Nganga and I have been discussing amongst ourselves at length. We were wondering if anyone else was thinking this. IMO, kicking the bullet one way or another by grinding out the crown would have to induce yaw into the bullet's flight resulting in exactly what you describe.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Don: I know you have the bona fides, but have you actually witnessed bullet tumbling from muzzle-ground doubles in heavy game? I hadn't heard of this before, but it makes some theoretical sense.

Just look at the 458WM and I think certain bullets that wouldn't stabilise
in the barrels before leaving. It caused no end of problems.

If the mussle / crown causes destabilisation, does the bullet travel far enough to be able to re stabilise or is it even possible to restablisilise in flight ?

I know some smaller bullets can take a while to "settle down".

Bill - seen two doubles that had been regulated by offset crowning. An early Searcy and a Ferlach. One was .458 Win and the other .470.

The Searcy fetched up in the Harare balistics lab and Charlie Haley used it as a demo gun at the PH exams for several years. Left barrel shot fine, right barrel keyholed ever so slightly. Somebody later bought the gun off the police- paid 100 zim dollars for it, but after one hunt reconed he had paid too much. That rifle is a large part of the reason most Zim PH's look down on Searcy's - every appie comming through to the exams got to shoot it and se3e all the faults. The Ferlach gun got sent back with a snotty note in German from our top gunsmith (a German named Walter Roth) and returned properly regulated.

500N - yes all bullets need some distance to 'go to sleep' in target shooting language. Generally the twist of most big bore rifles is on the conservative side and the bullets are well stabilised. Still many big bores show better penetration at 20 paces than they do at 10 and closer - this is entirely due to the back of the bullet occilating a little and vastly increasing the drag (and increasing the size of the wound channel) when they hit.

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
or you can just get a dremel at home depot and grind the muzzle......

Don,
I have never offset crowned a rifle in my life. If as you say it was done to that rifle then it was done by some one else. Hell I had never heard of this method until the Sabati thing came out. And also the readers should be aware that the rifle your talking about was most likely a BSS conversion on a shotgun frame, and not a rifle made on my own actions.

Hi Butch- no idea who or why. Rifle turned up as 'lost property' at Harare airport and was handed into police Forensic ballistics dept- which was nice as both charlie and I could play with it whenever we wanted. Must have been about 1989 or 1990. Got sold off when the police had a (second) massive clear out of odd guns in 1996

That rifle and a .500NE are the only two of your rifles I have ever seen in Zim- both early models and not your finest work . Your rifles have come a long way in the last 20 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
You just put into words what Nganga and I have been discussing amongst ourselves at length. We were wondering if anyone else was thinking this. IMO, kicking the bullet one way or another by grinding out the crown would have to induce yaw into the bullet's flight resulting in exactly what you describe.

Hopefully we will have a more definitive answer to this question in a few weeks time. Tests should begin in the next week or two by a well-known and respected member of this forum who has no investment in the outcome - will just post the facts.

They'll be using my Sabatti 450-400 which has one "clean" crown and one "ground" crown. factory loads as well as handloads to be tested.

I had a very bad dream last night: I was going into home depot at 615am and the only car in the parking lot was a beautiful early 60's blue vette. As i checked out the only other customer in the store had a cart full of dremel tools and as he had a name tag on, I said Hi Butch, what ya doin with all the dremel tools. He turned kinda red and said he had learned of a way to redirect the thrust from his twin tailpipes on the vette as it was yawing to the right when he launched at the stop light. I said cool, who did you learn that from. He explained a slick looking dude from italy driving a rear engine sports car showed him how to do. Suddenly i woke up and thought, I need to go check the tailpipes on my 69 big block camero to see if they have been regulated. On a lighter note, I was in Cabela's/Boise store a couple days ago and they have 3 new Sab arrival's. The 450 ( beautiful wood) perfect bores. The 470, perfect bores. The 500, Looks like my old dentist worked on it for about 30 min. Anyone looking for a 450, have Cablels"s send you pics as it is outstanding.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Heath:
Hi Butch- no idea who or why. Rifle turned up as 'lost property' at Harare airport and was handed into police Forensic ballistics dept- which was nice as both charlie and I could play with it whenever we wanted. Must have been about 1989 or 1990. Got sold off when the police had a (second) massive clear out of odd guns in 1996

That rifle and a .500NE are the only two of your rifles I have ever seen in Zim- both early models and not your finest work . Your rifles have come a long way in the last 20 years.

Wrong Don,

You forgot to mention that you handled my Searcy 470 Deluxe Grade a few years ago.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
You just put into words what Nganga and I have been discussing amongst ourselves at length. We were wondering if anyone else was thinking this. IMO, kicking the bullet one way or another by grinding out the crown would have to induce yaw into the bullet's flight resulting in exactly what you describe.

Hopefully we will have a more definitive answer to this question in a few weeks time. Tests should begin in the next week or two by a well-known and respected member of this forum who has no investment in the outcome - will just post the facts.

They'll be using my Sabatti 450-400 which has one "clean" crown and one "ground" crown. factory loads as well as handloads to be tested.

Solids at varying distances into an appropriate medium should provide the answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
You just put into words what Nganga and I have been discussing amongst ourselves at length. We were wondering if anyone else was thinking this. IMO, kicking the bullet one way or another by grinding out the crown would have to induce yaw into the bullet's flight resulting in exactly what you describe.

Hopefully we will have a more definitive answer to this question in a few weeks time. Tests should begin in the next week or two by a well-known and respected member of this forum who has no investment in the outcome - will just post the facts.

They'll be using my Sabatti 450-400 which has one "clean" crown and one "ground" crown. factory loads as well as handloads to be tested.

Solids at varying distances into an appropriate medium should provide the answer.

That's the plan.