The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles What's your length of pull bolt vs. doubleGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Just curious, I am wanting to know what your LOP is for your bolt rifes compared to your double rifles. As for myself, for a bolt rife it's 14.25 inches and for my doubles it's 14.75 inches, thus an half of inch difference between my bolt rifles and double rifles. Not wanting to cut hairs here with other variables, there's a bunch out there, just the difference between the two for you personally. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | ||
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Model 70 375H&H LOP 14.25 Searcy 470 LOP 14.5 No problems with, but the 470 "feels" like it could be a little longer. | |||
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I prefer my DRs to be about 1" longer (15" LOP) than my magazine rifles. | |||
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Bolt rifles 14 5/8" Double rifles and shotguns too 15" JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Both have the same 13 1/2" SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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I could never understand why a DR has to have a longer LOP over a boltaction rifle. I've tried longer pull DR's and find that 1) only my bare finger tip contacts the front trigger and makes it almost impossible to get off a good shot and 2) the longer stock impacts me on my rotator cuff because I can barely get the butt onto my shoulder "pocket" for comfortable shooting. I prefer a DR with the same LOP as all my bolt actions and I won't seriously hurt myself shooting them. Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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If it is to fit the same, it usually will. Lots of folks get confused with this one. LOP and actual stock length are not the same thing. LOP is the measurement of the distance between the trigger and the center of the butt. LOP of a double trigger gun is measured from the FRONT trigger. Take for example a matched pair of double shotguns, one with double triggers and one with a single trigger. The LOP of the double trigger gun will MEASURE longer than that of the ST gun, even though the stocks are of the exact same length. Although it depends on the individual guns being compared, the relationship is generally the same with a DT double rifle and a bolt rifle. Given the same fit, the LOP of the double will usually measure 1/2" to 1" longer than the bolt rifle. My bolt rifles are 14.25" and my double rifles are 15". ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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Correct "400"...also the stock configuration makes a difference....PG stocks for me are generally perfect about 1/2 inch shorter than my LOP on the SGs, which for me is 15.5 That's aside from the trigger configurations. JW | |||
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400, by that logic, then the lop should be shorter than a boltaction rifle. Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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No. Given stocks of the same length, the LOP of a double trigger gun will generally measure longer than that of a single trigger gun. ------------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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OK, one more time. Stock length and LOP are not the same thing. A DT gun with an LOP of 13.5" and an ST gun with an LOP of 13.5" have the same LOP, but are not the same length stocks - it's physically impossible for them to be, because they're not measured from the same place. It is equally impossible for them to fit equally well. Let's try the shotty again. Say, a 12 bore Boss with double triggers, perfectly fitted to a specific shooter with a 15" LOP. Now, with no other changes, replace the double triggers with a Boss ST. With no alterations to the stock whatsoever, LOP is now 14.25". Same stick of wood, no alterations, same length, same fit,... different LOP. For proper fit for a given shooter, from type to type stock length won't change much, but the LOP measurement will vary. ----------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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Never ceases to amaze me how much I learn on this forum. 13.5 measured from the front trigger is not the same as 13.5 measured from a single trigger.Please tell me where I can get these magic measuring devices that do this I really need them. When I specified 13.5 for the length of pull on the new 257 being built I was prescribing an exact measurement from an exact point to an exact point. When you specify Length of Pull that is exactly what you do. If the question is do you have a different LOP for a shotgun or double rifle than for a bolt rifle that is an entirely different question it still is the same measurement from the same 2 points because it is still length of pull. I have always thought (probably incorrectly) that length of pull was determined by arm length to end of trigger finger and neck length. The object being to have a comfortable gun mount with perfect sight alignment. This can be complicated by eye relief when a scope is mounted. As I say though I am often wrong on these things and as always I appreciate the knowledge imparted by the members of these forums. I am forever greateful. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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  Feeling a bit pigheaded this morning, eh Zim? Care to show me where I said that?As I've said twice before a given LOP is a given LOP BUT, it is physically impossible for a 13.5" LOP on a single trigger gun to result in the SAME LENGTH STOCK, or THE SAME FIT, as a 13.5" LOP on a DT gun.
Well, you thought you were. Yes, it's an exact measurement on an individual gun, but it's of limited use from gun to gun because LOP is dependent on trigger placement, and trigger placement varies from gun to gun. Correct gun fit is in no way dependent on trigger placement, so relying on LOP will not insure correct fit.
Uh, Zim? That IS the question we're discussing.
No, it isn't the same measurement, because they are not measured from the same two points. The double is measured from the front trigger (middle of the guard bow) and the bolt rifle is measured from it's only trigger (ususally, the rear of the guard bow). For proper fit, you want the same length stock, which, by definition, won't be the same LOP.
Wrong. LOP is a static measurement determined for an individual gun after proper fitting to a given shooter. It's a byproduct, and will vary some among different guns of the same stock length properly fitted to the same shooter for the reasons given above. The trigger finger has nothing to do with it.
Correct. In the context of our discussion, this is determined by stock length, not LOP - which, again, are not the same thing. With all other variables set correctly, correct stock length is that which, in an instinctive mount with the shooting hand in its normal place on the stock hand with the second finger against the back of the guard bow, places the shooting eye in alignment with the sights, and the shooting hand in it's correct position in relation to the shooter's face and shoulder. If the stock length is too short, the eye will be misaligned to the right (for a right handed shooter), the base of the thumb of the shooting hand will be on a collision course with the shooter's nose and, on a hard kicker, the second finger will tend to get smacked by the guard bow. If the stock length is too long, the shooter's eye will be misaligned to the left and the shoulder will likely suffer unduly from recoil because the butt will often be misplaced. Again, this stock length is determined with the shooting hand in it's normal position on the stock hand, with the second finger against the back of the guard bow. With the shooting hand so positioned, how far the index finger must reach into the guard bow for the trigger (which the static LOP measurement is dependent upon) is immaterial - it has nothing to do with correct stock length for proper fit.
If it is, then the wrong scope was chosen.
You're welcome.  ---------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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It's always so gratifying when someone explains things so clearly. Now I will not take the LOP of a gun for sale to have any REAL meaning and instead will look for the 'stock length' of the firearm. Curious but I have never seen this measurement and don't know how to measure it on my stocks. I will go back to the specifications and find where to take this measurement. I just pulled Roy Dunlaps 'Gunsmithing' from the shelf and checked and he doesn't mention stock length and his model 'Stock Specification Sheet' does not have a heading for it but does include Length of Pull. Incidentally Dunlap reccommends that length of pull on a Double Trigger gun to be taken halfway between the 2 triggers which would be a closer proximation to the placement of the trigger on a single trigger rifle. If I remember using SABI rifles of South Africa's measurement sheet for a custom rifle they asked for length of pull but also wanted hand size and many other dimensions as well. Finger placement can be changed by diameter of pistol grip or wrist in case of a straight grip but is rarely changed by LOP. In my estimation it is more critical of arm length and neck length to give correct position of stock for good sight picture. As for eye alignment with the sights I have always felt that to be controlled by comb shape and thickness and cast and drop and not by length. I'm glad I have reached the age and arthritis condition where I don't build stocks any more. I find I have been doing it wrong all these years . SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Oh, well, there are a lot of folks too simple to grasp basic concepts.---------------------------------------------- "Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder." | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles What's your length of pull bolt vs. double
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