Hi Guys - was at Krieghoff factory on monday and I asked about regulating a rifle with or without a scope.

Reply was that at least 20% of their rifles will need to be re-regulated if they were ordered regulated with iron sights and you now want to mount a scope. If you are mounting a heavy scope, it will almost certainly need re-regulating.

Soooo If you plan on mainly using the rifle with a scope mounted, make sure it was ordered that way from the factory. If you dismount the scope for a follow up- not going to notice the loss of regulation at 25 yards or under!

Obviously, this applies to all other conventionally made doubles as well. The only exception is Blaser (was there yesterday). They are all regulated at 100m with a light scope mounted and are thus perfectly acceptable at 50 with open sights and seem to handle a heavier scope just fine.

Having followed some of the comments on this thread I took the oportunity to try them out.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:

Obviously, this applies to all other conventionally made doubles as well. The only exception is Blaser (was there yesterday). They are all regulated at 100m with a light scope mounted and are thus perfectly acceptable at 50 with open sights and seem to handle a heavier scope just fine.

I hope Mac doesn't see this BLASERS RULE!

Hi Ganyana!

You are in Germany?

If the answer is yes you must also visit:

Reimer Johannsen /Neumünster and

Hartmann & Weiss / Hamburg.

Both are located in Northern Germany.

cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:

Obviously, this applies to all other conventionally made doubles as well. The only exception is Blaser (was there yesterday). They are all regulated at 100m with a light scope mounted and are thus perfectly acceptable at 50 with open sights and seem to handle a heavier scope just fine.

I hope Mac doesn't see this BLASERS RULE!

Funny man, BUSH! If the other rifles are regulated with a very light scope, mounted low, after being regulated with the irons, the scope will work well 90% of the time. Blaser is not unigue in that respect!

Blaser double rifles are very accurate, and have the adjustable regulation, they are machaniclly strong, they fire when they are supposed to, and they don't cost much comparitively, those things are a given.

My only objections to the Blaser double rifle are, it doesn't re-cock it's self when broken open,and the auto safety cannot be disengaged, because it is the only way to cock the rifle!

Regardless of chambering, that negates it's use as a DGR, in close encounters, where things tend to happen fast, and the simpler, and quicker to opperate a rifle is, the better!

Single barrel rifle with large scopes with very accurate long range capability, in target stocks will kill a Cape Buffalo, even a wounded one, But I'd no more use a Blaser double rifle to go into the weeds with a wounded dangerous animal than I would a bench rifle, unless that was the only choice I had. I do have a choice, and the Blaser rifles are not my choice for DGRs.

The Blaser double is fine, and mechanicly sound, It is simply not designed correctly for a DGR! I'd rather use a single shot that re-cocks it's self, and did not have an automatic safety, when opened, than a double that didn't cock its self and had an automatic safety. Besides, Blaser rifles are ugly!

IMO, the Krieghoff is the only rifle of that type that I would even consider for a DGR. However, if Blaser would adopt the same system that Krieghoff has, then the would be at least acceptable, but would still be ugly!

Sorry Mac, I couldn't resist

I still think Blasers rule and I would love to have this .470. I think it is a heck of a deal. However, it's too heavy for me. If I ever get a double (I will), it will be a 9.3X74R which you suggested to me a long time ago. At the time, I thought real doubles began with the 450/400. However, I think you are right about the 9.3 but, when I get one, it will be an S2. I think the 9.3 is every bit the caliber of the flanged .375 and brass, bullets, and good guns are easy to come by at a reasonable price. I have an R93 and I think it is a superb gun. I really like Blasers.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Sorry Mac, I couldn't resist

I still think Blasers rule and I would love to have this .470. I think it is a heck of a deal. However, it's too heavy for me. If I ever get a double (I will), it will be a 9.3X74R which you suggested to me a long time ago. At the time, I thought real doubles began with the 450/400. However, I think you are right about the 9.3 but, when I get one, it will be an S2. I think the 9.3 is every bit the caliber of the flanged .375 and brass, bullets, and good guns are easy to come by at a reasonable price. I have an R93 and I think it is a superb gun. I really like Blasers.

Dave

Dave, I took your comments the way they were ment!

For practical use, the 9.3X74R is the largest chambering I would use in the Blaser. This is because I don't think the Blaser doubles are suited for anything more dangerous than black bear,or wild boar, and the 9.3 will topple that furry booger on his butt, in a hurry!

As I said, I have no disdain for the quality, or strength of the blaser rifles, only the design for a DGR, and I consider them to look cheap, with the rings around the muzzles, the plastic ribs, the island rear sight,half way down the barrels, and the automotive look of them! Everything past the DGR comment, is a personal preference, but the DGR thing is REAL, in a big way! The Blaser doubles are fine for their price, and to use in the USA,or all of North America, the Blaser in 9.3X74R is OK. In fact it is great as long as you use it for the animals here, with the exception of the Brown bears, in close cover, it will serve you well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to this beholder she sure is an ugly duckling!

Two things:

I had no regulation problems with the John Wilkes made .470 when JJ put a scope on it for me.

Personally for dangerous game hunting a Blaser at $1000.00 is still to high. I remember going to a seminar on the Blaser in .500 or some caliber anyway at the SCI in Reno, some years ago. I came away real disappointed, left it early and haven't looked back. I don't see how they could sell one except to an unsuspecting first time buyer.

Ganyana,
I am sorry but I just don't understand this whole thread!!

I have mounted scopes on double rifles that were regulated with iron sights without any problem...

All you have to do is sight in the gun with the scope like you do your iron sighted bolt gun and I have done this many times for folks...

I am missing something here or thinking someone is trying to get into your pocketbook......Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing...

Ray, Started on a couple of other threads where folkswere complaining that their doubles lost regulation when they mounted a scope. Since I was going on a tour of three of the big european double rifle factories, I took the oportunity to ask.

Personally, I would never scope a heavy cal double! But I watched what happened with a .500/416 that was being regulated with a scope. Shot a 2" group at 100m with scope mounted (fired in a rest) and managed a reasonable 10cm 'group' once the scope was removed.

Most people wouldn't notice They then showd me a .470 that had been regulateed with open sights and it gave a fantastic group at 100m. I tried it from the bench and was still very impressed. The maker stressed that he couldn't gurantee that it would still regulate if a scope was mounted.

Some calibers seem more sensitive than others but I don't know enough to comment, and each maker gave a different answer!

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Shot a 2" group at 100m with scope mounted (fired in a rest) and managed a reasonable 10cm 'group' once the scope was removed.

What kind of rest was it fired in?

A sprung loaded cradle! The lad at Blazer just shot from a normal Bench rest, using the front rest to support left hand and nothing under the right or the butt- ie took full recoil.

I often wondered what sort of work youngsters with interesting body piercings and body art get... now I know If you don't have a brain, 400 rounds of heavy rifle ammo from the bench in a day cannot cause concussion