I am a bolt rifle hunter but am thinking about a double as I hope to do some more elephant hunting in the next 10-20 years.

Living I Scandinavia the second hand market for doubles is sparse, at best.
Not really willing to pay for a new double just to try it and se if I like the concept leaves me with fee options.

Have now found a used Krieghoff chambered for 500/416. The gun will probably cost me about 6000$ and that includes dies, some bullets and about 50 cases. Also has claw mounted Leupold 2-7x32 and a Burris reflex sight.

Having previously used Blaser rifles a fair bit the cocking lever on the Krieghoff does not scare me. But I’m not entirely sure the 500/416 is the caliber I need or want.
Not looking for the really heavy hitters either but I think the 450/400NE or the 450NE make more sense. As finding ammo and even brass for the 500/416 might be a big problem in the future and I do not really need the velocity I get but still have to pay for when it comes to recoil.

Most likely I’ll be using hand loads in this rifle as factory ammo is extremely expensive, if I can find it.
If I like the rifle I’m wondering if I can turn it in to more of an elephant caliber by using heavier bullets, like North Fork 430gr or Woodleigh 450gr and have the rifle re regulated to my hand loads.

Any thought or comments from those with more experience?

The 500/416 will work. Just use the heaviest bullets you can get it to regulate with. You have plenty of case capacity to drive the big ones. That's a great price for a Krieghoff double, and I may have a source of 400/416 cases. A friend used to have one, and had several hundred cases.

If the price was right, I would take one; otherwise, no. I have two Kriefhoffs; I like them. The cocker is not a problem; as always, train and practice with your equipment.
Oh, I just saw the price; buy it.

That's a steal in any chambering. I don't think you'll regret buying it.

Have you seen any .470s?

For me, a .470 would be the one to buy.

But $6K for a K-Gun is indeed a great price, at least in the USA.

I would buy that gun in a heartbeat,too good a price to pass up on,I do have one already though ,it's a great caliber for anything that walks,mine is fitted with a Docter red dot sight,I have killed buff with the standard load 410 @ 2350 fps,it is a great caliber to load for,my light load for my gun is a Barnes Tsx 300 gr @2350 fps,only shot some pigs with this load so far but do know of someone who has taken Eland with this load,I have a good supply of components & it was not terribly difficult to find supplies,having the scope on the gun you mention is a definite plus
I do not think that you would need to re-regulate the rifle if you want to use heavier bullets? it's just a matter of loading trial & error until you hit acceptable groups,I load for quite a few DR's,I routinely load different bullet weights in my guns,never had to re-regulate.

I'd buy that rifle in a heartbeat.

That is a steal.

You can have additional sets of barrels fitted.

Thanks all for your input and suggestions!

Part of why I am hesitating even though the price is really good is the fact that where I live you are only allowed to own a total of six guns for hunting, including shotguns and rimfires.
So this double will take up one of my six spots so to speak and if I do not like it I have to find some one willing to buy it before I can change it to an other rifle.

Selling it, even at these very low prices can be a challenge and seriously time consuming as the demand is close to zero.


I really appreciate your feedback and offers to assist!
Thanks again!

Could you use it in Sweden say on Elk or wild boar? Or more to the point are you legally able to use it in Sweden.

Yes, I could use it for hunting here in Sweden.

$6k?? I would have already bought it!

Klein..I bought a used Krieghoff big five .470NE some years ago..for a similar sum of money. I scoped it with a swing mount with a red dot Leupold. I am very pleased with it...I have vintage doubles but need optics to shoot well now..

The decocker is an added safety bonus and mine is very forgiving, shoots almost identical with Norma, Federal and Hornady factory ammo.. I reload with 90 grains N150 and it regulates well with that load..

The 500/416 never quite caught on..hard to find ammo etc., Norma load them..to a price though.. The recoil is also similar to a .470NE.. A 500/416 can of course be used on moose...but it is over the top overkill.. I think a 500/416 will be hard to sell..as you say demand in Scandinavia is almost nil in these calibers.. (I am in Norway..).

So...if you have serious plans on hunting DG in Africa it may suit you well, otherwise dont bother..

For the money, sure.

As others said, you can get other barrel sets for it- if you could get shotgun ones, while it would be heavy, it could do duty as a shotgun with the 12 ga tubes, get a set in a midbore caliber and it would do boar, the 500/416 set would handle DG in Africa… and all on one gun on your license. Sounds like a good deal for you- I’m just not enthused about the looks of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
Klein..I bought a used Krieghoff big five .470NE some years ago..for a similar sum of money. I scoped it with a swing mount with a red dot Leupold. I am very pleased with it...I have vintage doubles but need optics to shoot well now..

The decocker is an added safety bonus and mine is very forgiving, shoots almost identical with Norma, Federal and Hornady factory ammo.. I reload with 90 grains N150 and it regulates well with that load..

The 500/416 never quite caught on..hard to find ammo etc., Norma load them..to a price though.. The recoil is also similar to a .470NE.. A 500/416 can of course be used on moose...but it is over the top overkill.. I think a 500/416 will be hard to sell..as you say demand in Scandinavia is almost nil in these calibers.. (I am in Norway..).

So...if you have serious plans on hunting DG in Africa it may suit you well, otherwise dont bother..

I agree with Pondoro. Wait for a Krieghoff or Merkel or similar in 470 NE... There are frequently out Krieghoffs or Merkels in 470 in Norway.. expect about the same in Sweden..

Or you can buy my Verney Carron in 450 NE


Morten

I find the fit and balance hard to get used to and I don't care to deal with the trigger and safety, but the price is OK Id buy it and promptly sell it.

Problem with this caliber is if you lose your ammo in traveling you won't find it in Africa!! 470, 450-400 3" you will!!

It is not legal to travel on the airlines with handloaded ammo...you can have Custom loaders make it for you and pack in labeled boxes... not that people do it regularly!!

quote:

It is not legal to travel on the airlines with handloaded ammo...you can have Custom loaders make it for you and pack in labeled boxes... not that people do it regularly!!

That is totally incorrect!

Post your source please.

This is a very complicated issue. The problem is that there isn't much specific, but is subject to the interpretation of various rules and regulations. The bottom line is that it us generally up to the immediate attending enforcement officer ad to what he/she determines or dictates!! As you know with many airline employees, all are not "fully informed"...

The rules and regulations surrounding the carriage of guns and ammunition are included in:

IATA/ICSO regulations governing airlines world wide. This is where the origin of 5kg weight limitation for ammo, and it isn't specific to only the ammo, or packaging, or required case.

FAA regs including Hazzadous Materisls, but more importantly, EXPLOSIVES

TSA Regulations and there are even conflicts in these regs, mostly they limit to 75 caliber, 19mm, but these is one area that states 50 caliber!!... so some of our Double Rifle calibers??

Individual Airline rules. Think of the potential here!!

Many of the regs/rules state "IN ITS ORIGINAL PACKAGING"... so ...?? But the wording often continues, "or packaging intended for ammunition".... but will this be noted by the attending inspector or enforcement personnel??

The major problem is that ammo manufacturers are required to prepare "Data Sheets" on each caliber they produce. We don't see these unless you ask for them. They include NATO CODES that are issued specific to the ammo... and that determines its suitability for transport!! I have been asked for this code when shipping with UPS!!... or I wouldn't even know about it!!

I am not an attorney. But I think it would take a Philadelphia lawyer weeks, if not months, and $100,000 to write a definitive expose on this subject... and it would include their disclaimers!!

When I travel internationally, carrying guns and ammo, I always book with an agent who specializes in this and knows each airline rules, and all of the Country rules you are even transiting, let alone stopping!! These rules change daily!! For instance connections in Amsterdam with guns, last time I changed planes there, I had to have their pre-approved license!!

I have been coached by various knowledgeable people who have warned me: when you handload ammunition, you are entering the realm of making explosives!!" Enough said??


FAA/TSA regs/rules state you can't carry Black powder, period. But it also goes on to say, with regard to muzzle loaders, no lead balls, or primer caps....!! Inert LEAD BALLS??... I think it means "intended for muzzle loaders"... but could this mean a bag of shot or sling shot balls??

GOOD LUCK

For 40 or so years I hauled hand loaded ammo to Africa and back, never had it questioned, never met a African custom agent who knew what a handload looked like nor cared..In fact the only question I ever got was in Dar es Salam. told me I could not take empty shot 470s back home and what was my intention. I said I make buttons from the heads for my safari jackets! the only thing that came to mind. He got interested and asked for 6 of them for his jacket, I said sure bwana, ultimately we became good friends over the years

LIFE IS ALL ABOUT RISK!!

As an old Corporate Controller type, and pilot, I don't hang my fanny out very often!!

CheerZ,