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I know that many of us have struggled from time to time getting the little Chapius's to shoot to regulation, particularly when they are scoped. Todd Williams did a fair bit of experimenting with his rifle and locked into a load that worked. Todd shared his load data with me and I tried it in my Chapius. Very happy with the result and thought I would pass along the information and invite others to share their Chapius load data as well. Remember, start low and work up, what is safe in my rifle may not be safe in yours. Load is Hornady brass, 53 grains of IMR4064, Federal 210 primer, 1 grain of poly with a CEB 255 grain Raptor without the polymer tip. This target was shot at 50 yards off of sticks, ten shots. I did not have my chronograph with me to check velocity and will update this thread after the next range trip with a chrono. Also want to check performance at 100 yards on the next trip to the range.  Mike | ||
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Does crimping make any difference??? go big or go home ........ DSC-- Life Member NRA--Life member DRSS--9.3x74 r Chapuis | |||
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Not sure. I did not crimp. Mike | |||
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Mike, Did you use the regular CEB's? Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Rusty, They are the "regular" CEB Raptors, not the thick skin CEB Raptors. I think these have skin petals versus the thick skin three petals. https://cuttingedgebullets.com...y=DGBR-HP_N04_BBW_13 Mike | |||
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Mike, Have you tried any of the plastic tip to see if there is a difference in the grouping area? NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Mike, I did not. Todd said that he had trouble with the load when he used the tips. He speculated that the bullet with the tip was too long to stabilize. Bottom line the groups opened up considerably when he used the tips. I plan to try a few rounds with the tips next range trip and see how my results compare. Mike | |||
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I didn't see Todds report of this. Hmmm It would be interesting to see if yours will do the same thing. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Mike What Cartridges Overall Length did you load these to? Thanks. | |||
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I am embarrassed to say that I did not measure them. The brass was all trimmed to the recommended trim length. Then I just seated the bullet all the way to the last band on the CEB Raptor. In other words, the bottom of the last band on the Raptor (last from the base of the bullet to the tip) was aligned with the top of the neck of the case. I was a little concerned that perhaps the chamber would not be cut to accommodate a bullet with that type of ogive but they dropped right in and the length did not appear to be an issue, without the tips. Mike | |||
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Mike, Todd had a lot of trouble till he found that load. The rifle shot very well before he mounted the scope, but after he spent a lot of bullets and powder till he found that load. The question I have is, did that new load shoot OK when he removed the scope as well or did he have to have two separate loads for the rifle? I would ask Todd himself but he is gone to Zim hunting. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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My understanding is that this load shot well for Todd both with and without the scope. Mike | |||
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Bullets ordered, Mike! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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I am planning to load up a few more tomorrow myself! Mike | |||
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 That's good news! Having to use two separate loads could have some real draw backs! That would almost negate the quick detach feature for double rifles. I've not used those bullets but I would assume they would act similar to the North Fork. I think I'll order some and try that load in my Merkel 9.3 The North Forks 286s shoot very well in the Merkel, and the load is very close to my 4064 load for them. .......................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Just FYI, in case anyone is looking for some IMR4064, Natchez had some yesterday. Mike | |||
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I have about a half pound in one can, and a sealed one pound can both the same lot, but I think I'll order a couple more pounds while it is available. That is the only powder I use in the 9.3X74R. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Guys, ya'll have referenced tips on these CEB 9.3 bullets. Are there not (2) seperate types of CEB tips ? Or, is that in their other bullets ? | |||
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The Safari Raptors have a black polymer tip that you can purchase separately from the bullets. The tip is pressed into the bullet if you want to use the tips. If you do not want to use the tips, you use the bullets as they come in the box. Not sure I am answering your question, but the bottom line is that with the Safari Raptors tips are optional and the user inserts them (or not). Mike | |||
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I think I remember seeing both a pointy tip and a more round nose tip. I thought they would go in the CEB non con HP bullets. | |||
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Here is a picture with the non-con with and without the polymer tip. https://cuttingedgebullets.com...Images/338Raptor.JPG Mike | |||
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I have ten rounds loaded up. As soon as the weather allows, I'll give them a try! Thanks for the advise and help Todd and Mike! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Thanks Mike. I was just interested in the seating depth and how it might affect pressure but you've covered it. We turned up some longer CEB style solids that weighed 285gr to see how they would regulate but at that length the bullets started to key hole. | |||
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I seated my bullets, at Mike's suggestion, to the bottom of the top driving band. I did not crimp. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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That’s a good target I think you have found a good prairie dog load. Bill Member DSC,DRSS,NRA,TSRA A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. -Mark Twain There ought to be one day - just one – when there is open season on Congressmen. ~Will Rogers~ | |||
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I defiantly have regulation issues. The right barrel is dead on. The left barrel throws everything four inches low and left. I think it is time to send it to JJ. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Sorry to hear that Rusty. I hope to go out tomorrow and check mine at 100 yards and will report back. Mike | |||
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Rusty, From what I'm hearing, it appears there are regulation issues with the Chapuis'. Is this across the board, or only with a few guns? Their small frame guns are very affordable, but have they cut corners on getting them properly regulated? I've shot lots of DR's over the years, but never a Chapuis. I know Champlins has backed these guns vigorously, do they back them up when they don't shoot? Not trying to be controversial, just want to hear the facts. Mike JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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The CEBs out of the right barrel were right on target. The left barrel is the issue. Mike, wish I could make it, but flying out to Odessa Tomorrow. MD, I agree. I bought the rifle from Evolution in Idaho. I have an email off to JJ asking his help. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Update: Just got a reply from JJ. I'm sending the rifle up to him to be re-regulated. You just gotta love people like JJ Parodeau. Cordial, matter of fact, and no BS! For some reason or another I have been blessed knowing good gunsmiths. JJ Parodeau, Champlins, Enid OK. Dustin Mounts, Dustin Mounts, Rosharon, Texas Tip Burns, Canyon Sporting Arms, Canyon Lake, Texas Each of these does outstanding work in their area of expertise. Best of all each of these guys will take the time to talk with you when you call. We've all heard of or been a part of gunsmith horror stories. Like I said! I've been blessed! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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An update. Have been trying the load out at 100 yards to see what accuracy I get. Here is a target from a trip to the range today. I bumped the load up to 54 grains of IMR4064. I was getting an average velocity of 2355 fps (the 53 grain load was getting an average of 2317 fps). The five shots in the bull are all right barrel shots; the higher shots are left barrel shots. The one at the very top was L1. The other four left barrel shots were the group all together. While I would love to have the spread a little smaller, for 100 yards with a max 5X scope, this is certainly workable.  Mike | |||
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Just to jump in here as I just now saw the thread, it took me 14 load combinations to find this load which is the only one that works in my rifle with the scope mounted. Oddly enough, the 285gr solids work as well. Mac, with this load, my rifle shoots them fine with or without the scope. Strange rifle of mine as it pretty much shoots anything I feed it without the scope, but only this load with it. I'll try to get around to posting a video sometime later, but with this load, I took several animals at 150 yards or so last year. This year, I took an impala for leopard bait at 263 yards. Pretty good for a double rifle! Concerning the tips, at 25 yards, all seems fine but once you step out to 50, the bullets will not reliably strike the target, often hitting the ground in front of the target and spraying rocks into the paper. I think is has to do with the length of the bullet/tip combo and relatively slow twist rate of the Chapuis barrels. Also, I've not seen a difference between performance of the 6 petal or 3 petal designs of the CEB Safari Raptor (Non-Cons) concerning how they shoot. Obviously, terminal performance will be better on the large game animals using the 3 petal. | |||
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Todd, Did your rifle give you vertical spread when you scoped it or did it just foul up your horizontal regulation? NRA Endowment Member DRSS | |||
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Just horizontal issues. mdstewart, no, I would not say these guns have regulation issues per se. Everything I've fed my rifle shoots exactly to the regulation target WITH THE SCOPE OFF. It is only when the scope is mounted that the gun became finicky. Considering that the rifles were regulated without the scope, I don't see how one could state they cut corners and didn't regulate the rifles properly. I think the issue with these guns is that they are very light and the addition of a scope really affects the recoil arc. Obviously, the weight of the scope and height it is mounted will greatly affect this as well. Here is a target from my Chapuis 9.3, scope on, using the load we are discussing. This at 50 yards off of sticks.  | |||
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Thanks guys for ALL the info. I just became a member of the double rifle club. Same rifle and cartridge. A few questions. Do I need/have to use filler ? Is the Hornady ammo ok to practice with AND get brass to reload ? Who makes the 'best' 9.3 x 74R brass ? Where can I buy it ? Are the PPU 286g bullets the cheapest, jacketed bullets for practice reloads ? Is it a 'sin' to put a recoil pad on my double ? Thank you for your help . | |||
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I'm using Hornady brass for my 9.3 load. I've not shot any factory rounds however. Can't see why there would be an issue though shooting factory rounds to get brass for reloads. I've purchased my Hornady Brass from both Cabelas and Midway, depending on who has it stock when I went shopping. I actually found 4 boxes of brass in the Ft. Worth Cabelas a couple of months back. Grabbed it all!  No problem putting a recoil pad on it. The UGEX is quite light and many think it kicks a bit hard in this caliber. I don't but wouldn't mind the pad, especially as you'll probably want to protect against damaging the very nice checkered but plate. On the filler, my particular rifle is a bit strange. Using the load Mike discussed, if I don't put the Dacron filler in the case, for some strange reason, it doesn't regulate properly with the scope mounted. I'd have to go back to my notes but I think the barrels crossed a bit without the filler. You wouldn't think it would make a difference, but the best I was able to deduce is that for some reason, my rifle is affected by the load density of the case. Why that would be, I don't have a clue. But it does, so for me, I use the filler. It's a PIA to load and really adds time to the process so I'd try it without first, only using it if it makes your rifle shoot better. All that said, some other fellows have mounted scopes on these UGEX rifles and reported NO regulation issues at all. So the best bet is to just load up a few, take it to the range and see how she shoots. Congrats on your purchase. Once you get the rifle and load matched, it's really a nice weapon, very versatile, capable of handling all PG duties under 300 yards, and although not ideal, capable of stepping up to handle the big boys if something happens to your heavy rifle. Cheers.  | |||
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Sir, Thank you . | |||
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I know it is one more thing to try on the filler but I have replaced using Dacron with all of my loads and switched to using Backer Rod. For this you would just use the 3/8" size. It is MUCH faster to load than with Dacron. Not saying it will work with your issue of getting the gun to regulate but it is worth a try. Mac | |||
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Hello guys. Any of you 9.3 X 74R shooters/reloaders have load data for cast bullets ? | |||
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Probably worth a try Mac. To be honest, after all the different combos I went through to find this load, I just stopped experimenting right there. But yea, anything to speed up the process would be welcome as inserting Dacron filler is time consuming. | |||
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