I am in the midst of purchasing a William Powell & Son double rifle built in 1881 in 500/450 No. 1 Express and would like to find more information about the firm and reloading for the caliber in a double rifle. The gun is coming from Canada, so I should have it in a month or so. In the meantime, these pictures are from the website where I purchased the gun.

I have a couple of WP guns. I will see what info I have. As to reloading:

1. Do a cast of the bore and chamber to get exact dimensions. Most importantly bore diameter.

2. You have dies and brass and shell holder? Jacketed bullets or a mould and sizer die to cast your own?

3. Know the original bullet weight.

4. Know the original powder charge.

5. Prime the cases. I use large rifle magnum primers in 100% of my nitro and bpe reloading for the extra spark.

6. If using lead bullets, expand the case neck. Skip this step if using jacketed bullets

7a. If using smokeless, 40% of the original charge of black with IMR 4198 and a pinch of kapok pillow stuffing on top to keep the powder next to the primer for proper ignition.

7b. If using black, the original charge in FFg GOEX or Olde Eynesford. FFFg may be a bit too fast so if using 3F back off on the grains 10-15% and work up.

8. Seat a bullet of the correct diameter and weight with a light crimp or a friction fit.

9. Your goal is to shoot an acceptable target, say 2-3 inches at 50 yards. As you play with powder charges and velocity note where each bulelt prints on the target. If the barrels shoot apart, the velocity is too slow and needs to be increased. If cross firing, velocity is too fast and needs to be decreased.

Other smokeless powders will work but 4198 has done so well for me in 30+ years of playing with doubles I never saw the reason to try anything else.

Good luck, she's a beautiful rifle. I will see about WP informaiton in the am.
Cal

I have a bit of info on WP. Email me and I will scan you a copy. <pappas@mtaonline.net>

Here it is:

Dave,
I have a Cogswell & Harrison "Martini type" single shot circa early 1870's in .500/.450 #1 Express with Henry type rifling.
Of course not a double, so no regulation issues, but it really likes the RCBS .458 300grain Gas Check cast of 1-20. Back when I had younger eyes I got 7/8" 100 yard groups with Nitro for Black loads as well as GOEX 2F Black duplexed with ~8-10% old supply of SR4759. I use Swiss or Olde Enysford Black these days.

Bullets were originally 270-365 grains for the "Express".

For cases you can use Bertram or in the case of my C&H I get away with .50 Sharps formed and trimmed as the rim seat and case heads fit just fine.
Now as this case has an adequate shoulder you may also try .470 or .500 Nitro brass sized to headspace on the shoulder (the NE rims are .040" thick vs .060" thick rim on the .500/.450 #1). this is a much lower cost per case than Sharps or Bertram brass.....

Depending upon what ammo the original chambers were cut for (drawn brass versus coiled brass) you "may" find your case neck area to be quite oversized if they were cut for the coiled brass case. Just means regularly annealing case necks.

- Mike

Cal gave you much information related to shooting your Powell DR, and I address the other item that you requested--that of information about the company.

I must assume from your brief request that you are not aware that William Powell's (started in Birmingham, England in 1802) still exists today and that you will find much information on their website.

I was last in their shop on 11 Carrs Lane, Birmingham in 2002 as well as I remember and the then current Powell brothers, Peter and David were still running the business then and were even making a few shotguns in their factory at the same premises. In 2008 they sold the business and retired and I think I read that the business has moved from Carrs Lane where Powell's had been since 1846. The last time I was in downtown Birmingham--maybe ten years ago--it looked more like Pakistan than the Birmingham that I had known before.

The Birmingham gun trade lost two of it most expert gun people when the Powell brothers retired. In the past Peter had been a Guardian of the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House and David served on the Council of The Gun Trade Association as well as the British Shooting Sports Council. Peter and David Powell were as respected in the British gun trade as the Purdey family is respected. It is recorded by author Douglas Tate that when in 1916 when William Leith Powell died his obituary ran two pages in both the ARMS AND EXPLOSIVES and THE SPORTING GOODS REVIEW of the UK, and the "Sporting Goods Review" stating that: "The fame of the Powell's was made chiefly by the supply to order of sporting guns and rifles of the highest class".

Tate further says that: "In the 1950's Powell's opened their magnificent showroom on the ground floor of the factory on Carrs Lane. Apart from guns and shooting accessories, it opened fishing tackle and country clothing departments. In the following years the company expanded into mail order, and its catalog its distributed throughout the world....in 1992 the firm opened a New York office".

In the past I received their famous catalogs, and somewhere in my workshop I have a William Powell 12 gauge chamber cleaning brush with a beautiful walnut handle and brass fittings.

To most people in the British gun trade Powell's was considered in the top tier of gunmaking as was Westley Richards of Birmingham, and did so for more than 200 years. Powell's would make a best quality London pattern side lock ejector shotgun equal in every respect to a best quality one made in London, if you so desired, and at a price you could more likely afford, but it was not a cheap price by any means. I suspect that Powell's made some best quality SLE double rifles as well, and also suspect that they used some of the more famous rifle builders in Birmingham to action and barrel their rifles.

In Douglas Tate's rare to find book "Birmingham Gunmakers" on page 93 you will see a full page photo of an ad from William Powell and Sons exclaiming that "BY HER MAJESTY'S ROYAL LETTERS PATENT" that William Powell & Sons make Patent Breech Loading Double Guns in both "pin fire and central fire" and a image of each type in bar-in-wood hammer guns. I might add that if you find a copy of Tate's Birmingham Gunmakers book it will cost you a significant amount similar to G. Wright's 3rd ed of his book on British Double Rifles.

I encourage you to contact the current Powell firm and ask them for information on your specific DR. Your Powell DR looks to me to be a very good firearm.

Stephen Howell

Thank you, Gentlemen.

I am holding off on buying any reloading stuff for the rifle until I have it in hand, and then have done as Cal suggested regarding a chamber cast and slugging the bore. My intent is to see if I can put together a black powder load that will regulate in the rifle.

The rifle is ssslllooooowwwwllllyyyyy making its way to me. It is currently at the border, so it will be "interesting" to see how COVID-19 affects its trip across the border. In the mean time, I have 46 pieces of brass and a bullet mold for a 330-grain grease-groove bullet that will theoretically work for it. This has been an exercise in patience.

Gotta love that exchange rate...... sure hurts these days the other way!!

L&B you may want to take a Lyman M die and, as I did, have the expander die machined with parallel sides so that the neck expander will expand your case neck for a perfect friction fit with your lead or paper-patched projectile. This prevents the case mouth from belling and you get that friction fit that Cal was speaking about.

Just let me know what you need.
I have dies, molds aplenty and brass to form.
In fact, just bought a reamer for a single shot project.
You're going to love that rifle!

Fabulous nab, Dave. Really pleased for you. I saw my first William Powell double shotgun at the old Abercrombie and Fitch store in San Francisco, probably about 1969 or 1970. Being named William Powell myself, I was quite thrilled.

Bill, when we are safe from COVID-19, we'll have to meet at Raton for some shooting, and I will bring the Powell so you can shoot your namesake.

This caliber might be a good pick for your Martini project as "Redstone" above has described. Stock and sight it in the same style as the Powell and have a complimentary set. Fabulous rifle BTW, love that era.

Thanks Cal for that info. I have a Westley Richards double made in 1892 that is chambered for the same cartridge. I copied your post and saved it for further use with this beautiful old rifle!

This rifle is a dolls head, ejectors, set trigger on the right barrel, and came in a period fitted case, along with dies, and base for scope, and ten cases, and leather covered recoil pad, all for the grand sum of $1800.00

...…...………………….. MacD37

Dave: Need a like button here!

MacD, you overpaid for that William Powell. Let me help you out and I'll take it off your hands for $1,900. I'll sleep better knowing I helped a friend!

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
MacD, you overpaid for that William Powell. Let me help you out and I'll take it off your hands for $1,900. I'll sleep better knowing I helped a friend!

My rifle is a Westley Richards! The W. P. was Loud-n-boomer's
However when I get some loads worked up, I'd be glad to let you shoot it to see if it was worth the price I paid for it!
…...………......…............….. MacD37

quote:

Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:
" .... I am in the midst of purchasing a William Powell & Son double rifle built in 1881 in 500/450 No. 1 Express and would like to find more information about ...... and reloading for the caliber in a double rifle. .... "

Hello loun-n-boomer,

I have an 1882 Westley Richards Field's Patent Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Sporting rifle in 500-450 No.1 caliber. I've experimented with smokeless loads with various bullets. I'm pretty conservative, but this may provide you with some starting data for you gun.

Thanks Buckstix, but as many black powder rifles as I load for, one more "isn't but a thing" as a friend of mine says. I did get news that the all of the import paperwork is done and the rifle is shipping to me tomorrow, so I will hopefully have it by the end of the week. I will post pictures when it gets here.

The Powell finally got here to its new home. It is shown here with my other English express rifle. From what I can ascertain, these would have been the Westley Richards' 1870s/1880s equivalents to the .270 and .338 WInchesters. It is my intention to use both for hunting here in Colorado.

The upper rifle is my just acquired William Powell & Son 1881 rifle in 500/450 No. 1 Express. There are a few minor use blemishes on the lovely old thing, but the gun was well taken care of overall, and the bore is in excellent condition. A friend of a gunsmith I use has copies of the Powell records and was able to provide me with the following notation in the Powell daybook.

"1881 Aug 22 John Hugginson, No.7257, 8 ½ lbs, 1 Best Double barrel Express Rifle with steel barrels 27 inches long .450 bore chambered for WR No.1 Express case, 110 grains C&H No.6 + Eley bullet with copper tube.Double grip action, back action, Locks rebounding bolted in front, solid head plungers, one fold flush sight with sloping stand marked 100 & 200, rib 3/8 engine turned, D spring forend bolt, engraving threaded, eyes for sling & with cleaning rod bristle & wire brush loop & jag £30 + 200 solid brass cartridges (loaded by Pinnes? our materials) NA cases, 110 grains C&H No.6, Eley wads & bullets, 20/£2"

The Martini Henry Sporter was built by A. Conyers of Blandford, Serial #146, and is in caliber 577/500 No.2 Express. It has 27 1/2" Barrel with a full length flat rid with 2 leaf express sight., and the receiver is scroll engraved. It has a replacement butt stock. I plan to at least add a sling eye to the buttstock, and may go ahead and see if I can have one made to match the forend.

Nice set.

Now ready to explorer interior africa on a year long journey.