Does anyone own or shoot one? Or, have you handled one at the store? How good are these DR's?

I considered the Russian option long ago and passed. Now that the price is falling to more reasonable levels, I'm reconsidering getting one.

In case you haven't already.

Do a search on here on Sabatti.

Plenty of thread on them.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Oh.my, yes, please, do a search on that. More than you care to read about has already been written; same as the theory that if you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite time span on typewriters, they would replicate all of the the works of Shakespeare. I am not implying that all of us here are monkeys with typewriters .

I think a better analogy would be an infinite number of monkeys with tools given an infinite time span would soon build a Sabatti rifle! Actually, I think just a few monkeys could turn one out rather quickly in fact!

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
Does anyone own or shoot one? Or, have you handled one at the store? How good are these DR's?

I considered the Russian option long ago and passed. Now that the price is falling to more reasonable levels, I'm reconsidering getting one.

Okay, my original post was a little unclear. I know the past history of Sabatti with ground muzzles. Some people are very happy with them and some people felt ripped off.

Do the newer generation Sabatti's on closeout at Cabela's have descent wood, unground muzzles, and shoot straight? I would like to go French but, at ~1/4th the cost, I'm more apt to take this one along for harsh service (not a safe queen) plus, I can buy it NOW!

And, I am SPECIFICALLY looking for comments on the 45/70 version, not the 9.3x74R (own a Chapuis) or the big bores (own 3, Heym, V.C. and Chapuis). I cannot see one in person since the Glendale, Az store has none in stock. This would be an on-line purchase so, I don't want to waste my money on a construction lumber stock, ground muzzle, or cross-eyed rifle. THANKS!

No one can answer your question; each rifle seems to be unique. You will just have to get one and see. If you get one with "optowood" make sure you understand that that is a photo of Turkish walnut pasted onto plain wood. I have not seen any ground muzzles for a couple of years now. (The 9.3s and the 45-70s are built on the same frames and look identical. You won't be wasting any money; you do not have to buy it if you don't like it after it arrives at your local store. How do they shoot? You will have to shoot it to answer that. As for Baikals, they are the best shooting double rifles out there. Look like hell, but they shoot. I was at the range last week with a friend, with my 06 Baikal, and my 8mm Chapuis. The Russ shoots under one inch all day, and the Chap struggles to make it into 2 inches. (still working on loads for it). My friend asked why I would pay TEN times more for such performance (not mentioning looks). I couldn't answer that.

There is or was a young Army gent stationed up here that had a 45-70 Sabatti. He did bring it to one of our 'Shoots' and boy did it shoot! Very nicely. BUT IIRC it was regulated with one of those new light weight plastic tipped bullets. 300-325 grn.

I do believe they are "supposed" to be regulated with the Hornady lever action rubber tip 325 grainers, however, they are so light that that might be the best bullet for them. Recoil and all, for most people. NOT those who use this AR forum, however. Like Elmer said, he was "Immune to recoil" and he wanted his rifles to "kill on both ends".

Just have it shipped to your local store, look it over and if all appears to be ok, buy it. If it does not regulate (Hornady 325's) then Cabelas WILL take it back. I really like my 450 and it shoots well, as does my 30-06 Baikal. Hard to believe that it can keep 6 rounds of remington 180gr core lokt's inside of 3 inches with me shooting open sights. Pretty sweet for $600 out the door!

The Opto Wood how durable is the finish.. How slick to feel.. Anyone have one they've used a bit..

Ray on Choose Your Weapon used one to kill a blue wildebeest on one of the most recent shows on the Outdoor Channel. Used the Hornady tipped bullet.

No difference than using a 325gn bullet out of a 458 of whatever flavor.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
There is or was a young Army gent stationed up here that had a 45-70 Sabatti. He did bring it to one of our 'Shoots' and boy did it shoot! Very nicely. BUT IIRC it was regulated with one of those new light weight plastic tipped bullets. 300-325 grn.

Ideally, I'm looking for one to run the 250's and 300's. Specifically the Hornady LEVERevolution Ammunition 45-70 Government 250 Grain or, the 325's would work too.

I've taken 2 mule deer, a Corsican sheep, and a couple of whistle pigs with my Sabatti 45-70. I found out a year after I got it that it had ground muzzles but for the distance I'm shooting it I don't really care.

I've shot mine with leverevolution factory ammo and it shoots pretty good. I was able to shrink the groups to 1" at 50 yards with hand loads of the Hornady 325 and 300 grain bullets. I've also got it to shoot lazer cast bullets pretty good.

Another thing I really like about the gun is the fit of the stock. I've got a Chapuis 470 and the top of the stock feels too narrow on my cheek when I shoulder it.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Tyler

A friend of mine owns a Sabatti in 500 NE. The tset target it comes with shows a less than one inch regulated grouping ( with the words " final tuning" written next to it ) -- the one slightly higher than the other. In practice the best he gets out of it is a 4 inch grouping using the Hornady ammo it was regulated with. The individual barrels regulate beautifully , as they should. Upon examining other Sabatti targets available on the internet , it seems to me that these test targets with " final tuning " holes in them could in fact be the printing of only the one barrel being shot....

Sid,
I have owned a Sabatti 45/70 for almost 3 years and really like it. Just like Tyler's rifle, mine is well regulated and will shoot into 1 1/2" at 50 yds with the best loads. So far the rifle has fired over 1000 rounds with no sign of problems. I take 100 rds of ammo when I go to the range and rarely bring any home. Everybody there has to shoot it and they all have a great time.
If you really want one, get it. For $2300 I'm thinking of getting a 9.3 for Christmas. I was going to buy a Chapuis but too many people complain about the stocks not fitting unless you use a scope.

Cabelas, on the north side of Denver, had two 45-70's in the gun room, about 10 days ago, with beautiful wood on either.
Can't say they had more in the back or what the wood looked like.

My Sabatti 45-70 is just about two years old. No ground muzzles, etc. Very nice fit and finish. Regulates well with my 300 grain jacketed loads and 350 grain cast bullet loads. Just had to fiddle around with velocity to achieve that. I did install an aperture rear sight which sure helps accuracy for me.

I don't have much experience with doubles but I do have experience with both calibers in European and African (plaint game) hunts. Although I really love both of them but 9.3mm had much better performance on heavy animals. Before you go for .45-70 pls consider 9.3mm once again!I will gladly share my photos of bullets recovered from eland, boars, red deer, wildebeest,...water jags,...

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:
Does anyone own or shoot one? Or, have you handled one at the store? How good are these DR's?

I considered the Russian option long ago and passed. Now that the price is falling to more reasonable levels, I'm reconsidering getting one.

Okay, my original post was a little unclear. I know the past history of Sabatti with ground muzzles. Some people are very happy with them and some people felt ripped off.

Do the newer generation Sabatti's on closeout at Cabela's have descent wood, unground muzzles, and shoot straight? I would like to go French but, at ~1/4th the cost, I'm more apt to take this one along for harsh service (not a safe queen) plus, I can buy it NOW!

And, I am SPECIFICALLY looking for comments on the 45/70 version, not the 9.3x74R (own a Chapuis) or the big bores (own 3, Heym, V.C. and Chapuis). I cannot see one in person since the Glendale, Az store has none in stock. This would be an on-line purchase so, I don't want to waste my money on a construction lumber stock, ground muzzle, or cross-eyed rifle. THANKS!

As has been stated many times before; you will be out nothing; have the rifle shipped to your nearest Cabelas and if you don't like it, you don't have to take it. So, yes, you can see one in person. Of course, if it is a "closeout" deal, then once you walk out the door with it, it is yours but you can still examine it in the store for nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by Sid Post:

Okay, my original post was a little unclear. I know the past history of Sabatti with ground muzzles. Some people are very happy with them and some people felt ripped off.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
No one can answer your question; each rifle seems to be unique. You will just have to get one and see. If you get one with "optowood" make sure you understand that that is a photo of Turkish walnut pasted onto plain wood. I have not seen any ground muzzles for a couple of years now.

Gentlemen it seems some still do not understand the moto-tooling of the muzzles on Sabatti double rifles. The reason for the grinding of the inside of the muzzles of those rifles was because the jig regulation method used to regulate Sabatti rifles simply does not work.

Jig system is to regulate a double rifle is done by regulating one double rifle of a particular chambering in the proper method, Then placing those finished barrels in a jig, and adjust it to hold those barrels snuggly. Then the rest of the barrel sets for that chambering are simply placed in that jig, and soldered together. With this so-called money saving method maybe a small percentage of the barrels made that way will actually shoot close to regulation, and a larger number will be less than well regulated, and some nowhere near regulated!

Once Sabatti found this method didn’t work well with double RIFLES, they tried to fix it by grinding one side of the barrels to make the bullets yaw, in the direction of where it needed to be instead of re-heating the barrels and regulating them properly. Unfortunately the grinding didn’t work as well as the jig did, and so goes the story.

The reason this was done in the first place was to meet a price point that is far below a real properly regulated double RIFLE is done.

IMO, this is a mistake made by a company that has historically made only double barreled shotguns, and the jig regulation works fairly well for them. However a double barreled shotgun has only to regulate well enough to place one 30 inch pattern superimposed over another 30 inch pattern at 30 yds. I have my doubts that anyone walking into the jess with a wounded cape buffalo would knowingly do so carrying a double RIFLE that placed one barrel’s shot someplace in the 30 inch circle that the other barrel hit!

Some of the Sabattis that didn’t shoot well but had not had the inside of the muzzles ground were re-regulated using the proper method by dpcd, and others, and the ones with ground muzzles some were cut back to clean rifling, and re-regulated properly. Most that didn’t shoot well were simply taken back to Cabela’s for a refund!

Actually if the muzzles have not been ground, and it doesn’t shoot that well, they can be properly re-regulated by a competent double rifle smith, and considering the buying price, the cost of re-regulating by the proper method would still be cheap price for a double rifle!

Unfortunately those few who got rifles that shot reasonably well, made reports on the internet thinking all these rifle would shoot well causing many to buy pigs in a poke getting the ones that didn’t shoot so well!

You may be one of the lucky ones and get one that shoots well, but I would make sure that it could be returned if it didn’t shoot well! I’m hearing rumors that Cabela’s is putting a no return on some of them. That is one I would certainly stay away from!

…………………………………Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
There is or was a young Army gent stationed up here that had a 45-70 Sabatti. He did bring it to one of our 'Shoots' and boy did it shoot! Very nicely. BUT IIRC it was regulated with one of those new light weight plastic tipped bullets. 300-325 grn.

Not stationed up here, I'm a guard guy I live here


It's a good gun, I was hoping to get her out here this fall, but life and college have swallowed most of my time lately.


They are regulated with the Hornaday 325 grn leverevolution bullets. But I've found mine will shoot most bullets into a respectable 2 ish inch group at 100 yds if I do my part. Have had a bit if an issue with keeping the included scope rail tight, but seems to have gotten fixed now.

As far as general gun, I have to say its as nice as my Chapuis in 9.3, and has been far less troublesome to get to shoot different ammo. Though I can understand how/why people who got the guns with ground muzzles would feel differently.

If you have any specific questions about the gun, feel free to message me.

Interesting video. Seems they are doing it right now.
Sabatti regulation

I have one of the good-shooting .45-70s with unground muzzles and 5-lb triggers out of the box. I can shoot it off-hand and keep it on a 3x5 card at 40 yards. It has been to Africa five times. .45-70 selected since I have four other rifles in this caliber and a lot of hand load experience. Its primary use is as a backup when guiding clients for plains game. Usually I let the tracker carry it while I carry another rifle. Needless to say, my tracker has "status" among his peers. One of my clients shot an ostrich, off-hand at 100 yards with the rifle using the 325 Grain ammo. Out of interest, I had it taken down by a competent SA gunsmith knowledgeable in DRs. He rated the workmanship as very good.

When I decided to get into DRs, this was the first one I bought. The only con is pressure limitations on ammo, less than 32,000 psi. This negates using Buffalo Bore or Garret Hammerheads...save those for the Marlin Guide Gun.

As other contributors have stated, if you are contemplating a purchase, inspect it and agree to being able to test fire it.

Eagle One