My neighbor asked me how much it would cost to sleeve his .410 Remington SxS to a deer caliber. I told him his budget of $1,000 might be light. Was I correct? Seems like just the extractor work alone could push the labor up there.
For what it's worth, he wasn't too keen on paying $1,500 plus for a Baikal SxS. Any reflection is appreciated as usual. CB

Can’t speak for others, but my prices now start at $4.5k for shotgun to rifle conversions. I’m at around 125Hrs average for a conversion. At $1000 that leaves about $350 to pay for said labor...or about $2.75 an hour.

Are we confusing barrel liners with an actual conversion?

30-06 is also too big for a .410 frame, I’d recommend at least a 28ga frame. Also, I couldn’t recommend 30-06 due to pressure and lack of rim.

I am glad that Aaron spoke up as my first thoughts of the original post was that your neighbor's heirs would be spending much more on his funeral expenses (after the pressure of the .30-06 destroyed the .410 barrels and action) than the cost of a Baikal SxS

have him try .410 slugs?

As I expected, my inclinations are confirmed. I'll let him know what the pros said. Thanks.

Aaron - A barrel liner was assumed. Isn't a barrel liner the same as a sleeve? Thanks for the full explanation. I am much the wiser.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:


Are we confusing barrel liners with an actual conversion?

No. He's not quite that frugal. Just a bit low on the budget. He has several rifles to choose from.

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
have him try .410 slugs?

Sleeving is when you cut off the barrels just in front of the breach section forming a “monoblock”. Then new tubes are installed into the monoblock.

Barrel liners are just inserts that go into the existing shotgun barrels. I am unaware of anyone doing this.

Have him buy the Baikal; he can't get to where he wants to go for anywhere near 1500, as AL said. Now, putting 45-70 sleeves in a 12 gauge is a viable option; these are drop into the existing barrels and not part of the shotgun.
EAA used to sell them, not sure now. I have made them in 444 and 45-70.

Thanks dpcd. I saw those low-pressure caliber liners. Must be what he was thinking.

Aaron: Before I posted here, I told him that to do it right expect $4,00-$5,000.

I also told him that a Baikal would cost him $1,500. or more. He wouldn't pay that much either even now that they haven't been imported for several years and they aren't selling as cheap and they were when there were plenty to go around.

He's a nice guy so I figured I would look for that needle in a haystack anyway.

I have less than $600 in my Baikal 30-06... and $1000 for the 45-70 version... they're out there, just shop...

My crazy uncle used to shoot 44 mags in his .410 shotgun. I told him he was going to kill himself, but jack daniels did the job first.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Have him buy the Baikal; he can't get to where he wants to go for anywhere near 1500, as AL said. Now, putting 45-70 sleeves in a 12 gauge is a viable option; these are drop into the existing barrels and not part of the shotgun.
EAA used to sell them, not sure now. I have made them in 444 and 45-70.

My poor adventurous brain has been thinking of a 444 in a double 12 for some time now. Can I ask how you handled extraction of the 444?

If you rather not give away anything, I can certainly respect that.

Ay caramba!

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
My crazy uncle used to shoot 44 mags in his .410 shotgun. I told him he was going to kill himself, but jack daniels did the job first.

Once you think about it, it wasn't really dangerous; the long chamber and forcing cone made shooting the .429 bullet out of the .410 bore pretty safe. He was still a drunk idiot.
As for the extractor, I made a new one for the 444; the liners were not removable. It is not an elegant way but it was cheap and quick. Making a real double rifle using only the mono block is the best way of course, but then you are in the $5K range.

See now, my initial thought was that the .019" wider bullet would have put too much stress at the cone. After a bit more thought, a radius increase of .0095" doesn't sound like a lot of extra pressure on the cone surface after all. Sure sounded scary though.
Great food for thought Tom. Thanks.

Good point Jim. He has some great luck and bumps into some greats deals. He'll be at the right place at the right time one of these days.

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
I have less than $600 in my Baikal 30-06... and $1000 for the 45-70 version... they're out there, just shop...

It seems to me the 410 action might work with a 30-40 Krag or 303..???? I would opt however a set of new barrels, not liners..Still a 28 ga would probably be best???

Not many .30 rifle calibers belong on a .410 frame, unless it is dramatically oversized.

The chamber itself on his .410 is quite stout. Didn't pay much attention to the frame quality. But, just for the sake of knowledge, I just looked at the pressures for an '06 and it's like 3X the pressure for both 2.75 & 3" slugs.
Just one more deal-breaker to add to the mix.

It's not just the chamber pressure that is important (ok, it is only one consideration); it is the back thrust pressure. Chrome moly barrel steel is very strong, but most shotgun frames and locking bolts aren't necessarily so. And the firing pin holes are very important. Have to know the frame size you have, but 60K psi level cartridges are not well suited to double rifles. Not saying they have not been built on them; just most DR calibers are low pressure.
Buy a Bakial. Or a Chapuis for still less than a conversion. Not in 30-06 though, for the Chapuis. French law or some such nonsense.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
My crazy uncle used to shoot 44 mags in his .410 shotgun. I told him he was going to kill himself, but jack daniels did the job first.

My Grandad’s old single-barrel .410 says on the barrel: .410/44 Special

Hmmm. Interesting history.
Now there was a 44 special shot load way back when that pre dates the 410; 44XL I have one somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
My crazy uncle used to shoot 44 mags in his .410 shotgun. I told him he was going to kill himself, but jack daniels did the job first.

My Grandad’s old single-barrel .410 says on the barrel: .410/44 Special

I've noticed a .45 Long Colt drops right into a .410 shotgun chamber........

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
My crazy uncle used to shoot 44 mags in his .410 shotgun. I told him he was going to kill himself, but jack daniels did the job first.

My Grandad’s old single-barrel .410 says on the barrel: .410/44 Special

I've noticed a .45 Long Colt drops right into a .410 shotgun chamber........

My dad always said that's what the old time poachers would use.
Walk around in the woods with a .410 like they were squirrel hunting but slip a .45 Colt in for deer.
And don't let anyone tell you .45 Colt isn't enough for deer. I've killed plenty of whitetail and mule deer with anything from a Colt SAA using LRN at 850 fps to an 1892 rifle using .300 gr XTP-magnums at 1400 fps

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
I have less than $600 in my Baikal 30-06... and $1000 for the 45-70 version... they're out there, just shop...

Yes. I gave $700 for my Baikal in ,45-70.
If a guy is patient the .30-'-6 versions can be found for $700 t0 $850. They are ugly, but work.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Hmmm. Interesting history.
Now there was a 44 special shot load way back when that pre dates the 410; 44XL I have one somewhere.

I have one of those too...a smoothbore takedown falling-block .44

Thats my boy holding it...he was shooting English sparrows out of the chicken house with some light load #9 shot I load for it in trimmed .444 brass.

He'll find a Baikal eventually Tom. He'd never spring for a Chapuis.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Buy a Bakial. Or a Chapuis for still less than a conversion. Not in 30-06 though, for the Chapuis. French law or some such nonsense.