Just posted some Merkel 9.3X74R's on the classified section if anyone is interested

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2711043/m/633107175

Merkel, Model 141 double rifles, 9.3x74R, double triggers, ejectors, scroll engraved and coin finished action, made on a 28ga size frame,
unfired and in like new condition with box and all paperwork. $4600, (retail on this gun is $7200 and volume dealer price is $5400).

Same as above but with Kahles CSX 1.1x-4x, 30mm scope, P-Dot illuminated reticule and factory installed Merkel quick detach rings/base, factory sighted for 70 meters. $6100, (retail on this gun is $9000 and volume dealer is $6750 with a Leupold 1.75-6, only 2 guns available one has the box the other is missing the box and paperwork but both are like new condition) Note: the Leupold is a very good scope but the Kahles is a great scope and costs 2½X more than the Leupold.

Shipping is $50 to the first 48 states, guns will be shipped in a new plastic hard case.
Need a FFL, 3 day non-shooting inspection

ken@kebcollc.com

GAAAAA! Ken! SHHHHHHHHH! Gad man, I was hoping to keep these a secret!

Merkel has some VERY good deals on small caliber doubles. I just bought a Mdl 141 in 8x57JRS for $4000 and there are more. As I understand it these are European configuration guns and are more or less overruns. Mine has a single non-selective trigger and ejectors and the european humpback stock and flourescent front blade. Wood is very nice. Don't know what calibers were/are available my dealer only got 8x57's. I got the impression they were offered 2 rifles each. Mine was in cardboard box with no test target or other data except the manual.

I am giving some serious consideration to purchasing one of these 141's advertised in the classifieds.
Can anyone offer any feedback on them? Seems like a great price.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I am giving some serious consideration to purchasing one of these 141's advertised in the classifieds.
Can anyone offer any feedback on them? Seems like a great price.

Snowwolfe I have one chambered for 9.3X74R, and it has selective ejectors, cocking indicators,auto safety, which I disabled the AUTO feature on! The rifle shoots very well, and handles like a nice shotgun. The Barrels are 23.6 " Hammerforged barrels, that are Chopperlump ( the Germans call it DIMI-BLOCK), it weighs 8.7 pounds, and ballances perfectly.It is equipt with a set trigger on the right barrel. They come with a plastic but plate, so you can install a good recoil pad, and adjust the length of pull to fit you, in the process.

I bought this rifle five or six yrs ago, and have had zero trouble with it, and it has become my favorite rifle under 400 cal!

The ejectors, single trigger are optional items today, but they used to come as standard items! The single trigger is something you don't want anyway, if you plan on useing it for the big bear up there in Alaska, double triggers are far better on a double rifle! Single triggers are OK on doubles used for deer hunting, but I still prefere double triggers. If by odd chance, the single trigger goes south, your left with a club, but with double triggers, at least, you still have a single shot!

$4695 is what I paid for mine six yrs ago, new, but it had a fitted luggage case with it, so with the price going for around $9000 today $4600 is a real bargain!

Thanks Mac, I requested to see some photos and am giving serious consideration to purchasing one.
Anyone else have or used one of these?

I sent out pics to those that requested them. Barrels are 21 3/4"(55cm), weight of one gun I weighed without scope was 108 oz, so 6 3/4 lb. It seems that most have a plastic buttplate but at least one came thru from the factory with a black, very thin rifle pad. I have used as my personal gun a Merkel model 160, it has barrels 2" longer and built on a 20ga frame and must weigh at least 2 lb's more than the Model 141. I am so impressed with how fast and light the 141 is that I have already set one aside for myself to "field test".
All have ejectors, all have double triggers, all have a set trigger for the right barrel.

Zimbabwe, where do we find these deals? From what I have been reading (between the lines), there is a problem with both the Merkel and the Chapuis in the heavier recoiling "smaller calibers" eg. 9.3 x 74. As this applies to both guns, would someone who actually owns one or has fired one, care to comment?
Quick handling is nice, but if you get beat up, one does not really look forward to pulling the trigger.
Please note, I am NOT spoiling for a fight. I am genuinely interested in purchasing one of these, or, perhaps a Tikka/Valmet O/U.
Peter

Recoil is very subjective. What I find to be a hard kicker may not bother someone else. That said, I have not found the 9.3x74R to be bad in the various guns I have shot, the only down side I have found with the "light" guns is that recovery for the second shot (It seems the barrels raise up further with the light gun.) may not be as fast.

quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:
I sent out pics to those that requested them. Barrels are 21 3/4"(55cm), weight of one gun I weighed without scope was 108 oz, so 6 3/4 lb. It seems that most have a plastic buttplate but at least one came thru from the factory with a black, very thin rifle pad. I have used as my personal gun a Merkel model 160, it has barrels 2" longer and built on a 20ga frame and must weigh at least 2 lb's more than the Model 141. I am so impressed with how fast and light the 141 is that I have already set one aside for myself to "field test".
All have ejectors, all have double triggers, all have a set trigger for the right barrel.

I failed to say in my post, that my rifle is a 140.1 which is made on the 20 ga size action, and can be had with a set of 20 ga shot barrels, and/or a set of cape gun barrels. This double weighs 8.7 pounds with the 9.3X74R barrels. The recoil was enough that it needed a recoil pad, so I installed a Pachmeyr decellarator. I would think the much lighter 141 would,IMO, need one more to make it more usable, especially in the recovery time to get off the second AIMED shot!

I also have a 140.2 Safari 470NE Merkel and it needed a recoil pad more!

I have been using a 9,3x74R Chapuis double rifle for several years.
It weighs 7.7 lbs without scope, but including the Murray Leather buttstock shell carrier.
The Swarovski 1.5-6x42 adds 1.75lbs for a total weight of 9.5lbs.

It carries and handles like it weighs a lot less.

It is my favorite hunting rifle under .400cal.
You would not want to shoot it off the bench all day, but recoil is not bad at all.

I have handled and shot Mac's 9,3 Merkel, and it is a nice rifle.

I would like to handle and shoot one of these new lighter framed, shorter bbled Merkel 9,3's.

The Chapuis and the Merkel handle much better than the Tikka IMHO.

Since some people were a little concerned about recoil in the lighter guns I finished sorting rifles and have 3 Merkel Model 140's (this is the 20ga frame), these are all 2 barrel sets and come with a extra 20ga barrel and extra forearm. All are double trigger, single set trigger for the right barrel, ejectors. All are used but in excellent condition.
#1 gun is 8x57R has scope bases for Merkel twist off mount, no scope or rings, has
thin factory black rifle pad. $5900
#2 gun is 9.3x74R Merkel mounts and rings, 30mm Kahles 1.1-4 illuminated P-Dot
scope. 14 1/2" lop over black decelerator pad $6900
#3 gun is 9.3X74R Merkel mounts and rings, 30mm Swarovski 1.25-4 ( #24 reticule)
original hard rubber buttplate $6900
If someone wants the rings but plan to use their own or a different scope I will keep the scopes and allow a $800 credit for each one or $1000 credit if I keep the rings.

quote:

I have been reading (between the lines), there is a problem with both the Merkel and the Chapuis in the heavier recoiling "smaller calibers" eg. 9.3 x 74.

Peter, exactly where did you "read' this?
Of the several people I know who own the Chapuis in 9.3X74R, they have nothing but high praise.

Recoil of a 9.3X74R easy to handle and I'm a recoil wuss!

Recoil of my 9,3 seems much less than any 375 H&H I have shot.

I would not want my Chapuis to weigh any more.
It is perfect... in every way.

Rusty, on this forum! There have been several posters (mainly in the discussions a few months ago about a "group buy" for the Chapuis) but elsewhere as well, about the rifle being "light" (around 7 pounds I believe) and recoil being "sharp". In web speak, and bearing in mind that we are all "real men", I interpreted this to mean "noticeable", "uncomfortable" etc. If I were going to buy another double, especially a "light caliber" double, I would want to shoot it often, hence my question/concern about recoil, and in particular, weight of the gun. It is already clear, from the above posts, that there is a big difference between rifles built on the 20 ga. actions and 28 ga. actions. Interestingly enough, the Tikka 412 supposedly comes in around 9 pounds I believe, while the Merkel 141's seem to come in around 7 1/2 pounds. I believe that I would notice the difference. I have some large caliber guns, but the one I hated was a 338 WM. The recoil was such that I never shot it. I see no point in owning a gun that I don't like to shoot, hence my questions!
Peter.

Recoil is deffinitely subjective. I weigh a whopping 155lbs and I have a Kreighoff Classic I purchased while stationed in Germany. I have a 1.5-6x42 Ziess in "claw" mounts on it with a wide leather sling. 22 1/2 in barrels, double triggers with the right a set trigger. It weighs approximately 8 3/4 lbs. But feels more like 6-7 when carrying it, it seems so well balanced. When I first bought it I shot it quite a bit without the scope (I think it only weighs around 7lbs bare) Anyways...my wife and son laughed their asses off the first time I fired it and said,"I need to get the video camera for this" . Told me it must have knocked me back a foot. I didn't think it was that bad. I was on the military marksmanship team so am used to a lot of shooting so it really didn't bother me. I guess what I am trying to say is the best thing for anyone to do is see if they can find someone to try the gun before they spend that amount on something they will be scared of. And just let it set in the gun cabinet.

There are some great deals out there if you look. I picked this rifle up in germany CHEAP, If I remember I paid around 2-2,500 for it and another 1,000 for scope and mounting by a German gunsmith....it was new and if I remember correctly they are special lenghth barrels, ie...not the standard lenghth. It is also heavily engraved. The stock has gotten VERY beat up though, which bumms me out, but I bought it to use and they are just "war wounds".

Keith

PETER - if you are worried about recoil in a pussycat 9,3 i'd suggest you limit yourself to a hard hitting 22 rimfire !!

grow up, be a man for once and get a real rifle ! you'll be glad you did.

there is no recoil to speak of - both merkel & chapius are ergonomically correct stocks - you can hammer off two shots as fast as you can pull the triggers and never feel any recoil.

tikka .....yaaaaa better learn to speak swedish/ finnish or whatever.

hey peter - something to know about felt recoil - any necked case will always kick hard.
and the bigger the neck down the worse the kick.

a straight tapered case has no kick, just a solid push.

get rid of any necked down caliber and get all straight cases - 450 x 3 1/4 , 577. 9,3 etc and you eliminate your recoil / flinching troubles immediately.

and -never - shoot a double rifle from a bench. always shoot it standing so you can recoil with it.

Tomo577 is saying what I was trying to say and got sidetracked. The recoil of my 9.3x74R is more of a shove than a kick. The time my wife took the video is when I was checking the regulation off the bench. He is 100% right about shooting it while standing....don't really feel it...more of a big push. The last two deer I have shot were with me standing and they both in excess of 100 yards. One was closer to 200 yds. Drops them like Thors sledghammer with little meat damage.

For all those contimplating getting one....save enough money for another because you WILL want another!!

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
hey peter - something to know about felt recoil - any necked case will always kick hard.
and the bigger the neck down the worse the kick.

a straight tapered case has no kick, just a solid push.

get rid of any necked down caliber and get all straight cases - 450 x 3 1/4 , 577. 9,3 etc and you eliminate your recoil / flinching troubles immediately.

and -never - shoot a double rifle from a bench. always shoot it standing so you can recoil with it.

Not quite sure what to make of the wonderful wisdom displayed here. I have a 450 x 3 1/4 double. I have no problems with the recoil at all, but the gun weighs about 14 pounds. I have Kreighoff in 500/416. Again, no problems with the recoil, but the gun weighs close to 10 pounds. I have CZ 550 in 416 Rigby. Again no problems with the recoil, but the gun weighs.....Do you guys get the message? If not, please write me off as an incorrigible old fart and ignore my question which, if you remember had to do with a 9.3 x 74 R in a 7 1/2 pound gun.
Incidentally, I have and do, shoot my doubles from the bench when developing loads. Sorry, I don't know any other way of holding the gun steadily enough to work up loads when using bullets that cost $1 each.
I appreciate all the time you guys have taken to answer my question. It is now withdrawn! Dumb question!
Peter.

Peter
If you shoot a 500/416 Krieghoff then you will not have any trouble with the recoil of the 9,3.

I shoot mine all the time.

I want to handle one of the 21"bbled 28ga frame Merkels.

Kebco how much do they weigh?
Not the brochure weight, but the rifle on your scale?

That might be the 9,3 for the wife.
She does not like long heavy guns.
PS. I will tell her I bought it for me.... but I will let her borrow it.

Peter, as Ihave stated before I think the Chapuis 9,3 is one of the best hunting rifles in the Planet.

I would not want it any heavier.

Thanks NE 450. With a scope of course!! Neither of my "big boomers" get shot a lot ie. I will go down to the range and shoot 10 rounds, maybe. The idea of the 9.3x 74R was that I would shoot it a lot more, hence my question/concern.
I am definitely hot to trot! I missed out on the group buy for the Chapuis, but one of these Merkels might fill the bill.
Peter.

Peter: Ken says 6 3/4 pounds on the 28-gauge frame 9.3. I agree that's light enough to make recoil a consideration. One could handload down for playing around, although the loads likely wouldn't regulate. And I agree that that a light .338 WM is not much fun, although not in the grimly abusive category with an NEF 12-gauge single shot and 3-inch turkey loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Not quite sure what to make of the wonderful wisdom displayed here. I have a 450 x 3 1/4 double. I have no problems with the recoil at all, but the gun weighs about 14 pounds. I have Kreighoff in 500/416. Again, no problems with the recoil, but the gun weighs close to 10 pounds. I have CZ 550 in 416 Rigby. Again no problems with the recoil, but the gun weighs.....Do you guys get the message? If not, please write me off as an incorrigible old fart and ignore my question which, if you remember had to do with a 9.3 x 74 R in a 7 1/2 pound gun.
Incidentally, I have and do, shoot my doubles from the bench when developing loads. Sorry, I don't know any other way of holding the gun steadily enough to work up loads when using bullets that cost $1 each.
I appreciate all the time you guys have taken to answer my question. It is now withdrawn! Dumb question!
Peter.

Peter:

You're right all the way around, of course. The Chapuis and the new small frame Merkels are light for caliber in 9.3. The Chapuis is usually 7 1/4 lbs bare. It isn't that bad. Scope it, put a good pad on it, and you'll be fine. I've handled the small frame Merkels, but have not shot one. Didn't like the short barrels.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
I missed out on the group buy for the Chapuis, but one of these Merkels might fill the bill.
Peter.

Talk to Dale...he posts here under DLN...he may still be able to get you a great deal on a Chapuis...

Regulation on the Merkel 141's is not the problem it is with some guns as it is adjustable from the muzzle. I have never tried it but there are 3 small holes for what looks like a allen wrench to go in. All the 20ga frame guns are spoken for and as of today I only have 5 model 141's (28ga frame)left, two with Kahles illuminated scopes and 3 without scopes or mounts.

N E 450 No2 asked what they weigh, I put one on a scale and it came out to 108 oz or 6 3/4 lb. I guess they might be some difference between guns due to the difference in wood from one to another.

These are quality guns made of good stahl, but gargantuan force is required to work new ones. One should not need a knee to break one open!

My 141 8x57jrs weighs 6 3/4 lbs also and is HARD to open. They truly ARE stiff. My barrels are not adjustable but it is an 8x57. It has the normal protruding wedge at the muzzle between the barrels. They are DEFINITELY nice,light,quick handling guns. I prefer the forearm on the Chapuis but the pistol grip on the Merkel. I don't like the LOOKS of the Merkel humpback stock but I really like the way it feels. I don't know where you can buy more double for $3950. If I can find a scope mount it will probably be all the gun I'll need for the future.

Zimbabwe-Interesting your gun does not have the adjustment at the muzzle, never seen a M141 that didn't including several in 8X57R. I wonder if that is why they had them on special? If the gun shoots well they way it is it does not matter and the 8x57R is a wonderfull cartridge for most medium sized game.
New Merkels are tight, and that goes especially for their shotguns. I have had a couple that fought me when I tried to put the barrels back on the frame.

The dealer I bought mine from has one left and it is same except for front sight, which is the regular Merkel gold faced patridge. According to GSI these are European guns that are not normally imported to U.S.. They are certainly a bargain no matter what they are.

PETER if you have a range of your own, or a club range make yourself a "pulpit" to shoot from standing.

kinda looks like the preachers pulpit but is higher and has the sides extended back so your elbows can rest on them. padding helps. some english makers use these when regulating or filing in the sights.

it is imperative you recoil with the rifle

another idea is to lean your back against a post to help steady your hold when standing & shooting. we have a covered range at the club and the posts holding up the roof are conveniently spaced. try it if you can, tom