Saw a well priced Westley Richards for sale in .450 Express. I know the .450 NE but due to the various British calibers and their propensity to create proprietary cartridges for their guns I was unsure of what this is. Anyone know?

The origional Black Powder version?

Probably the BP 450 caliber. Is the gun nitro proofed and how much does it weigh?

Ken

Kind sir,
I believe many older British rifles are a mystery unto themselves. I recently had the privilege to service a Westley Richards M1897 single shot in .450 Express that was made well after 1900. Although the barrel was marked for Nitro Express cartridges and had British proof stamps for Nitro (smokeless) cartridges, this, as new, rifle would not chamber any .450 Express--.450 x 3 1/14" NE--cartridges. I was able to make this pristine rifle usable only by reaming the chamber to accept modern .450 x 3 1/4" ammunition. A significant amount of steel was removed from the chamber. I am not a run of the mill gun plumber.

I have no idea about standards in the British gun trade in the early 1900s, but it seems obvious that there were no "standards". Everything was proprietary, and God help the ammunition manufacturer who had to make cartridges to fit rifles from different makers. Dealing with these beautifully made old British rifles can be a challenge. SAAMI and CIP dimensions are available on line. A chamber cast compared with these dimensions may be helpful.

As much as I admire the grace and workmanship of older British rifles, everything about them is a crap shoot. Nothing was "standard". Even things like screw sizes are problematical. It's like every maker made their own peculiarly sized screws. While it's unconscionable for a thoroughly refined gun crank to compare a pre-1900 Winchester lever gun to a lovely, Alex Henry, Jeffery, or Gibbs rifle from the same era, it's a safe bet that a certain size screw, say 10-36, will fit any Winchester on the planet, while the same cannot be said for British manufacturers, including some as basic as chamber dimensions.

Good luck with your rifle.

Roger

Thanks for the reply... the rifle is on Steve Barnett's website under Double Rifles. Probably a reason it's priced the way it is. Casting chambers and making brass don't fall into my wheelhouse!

I have a Rigby made in 1879. It is chambered in 500/450 #1 Express. It is a rimmed bottleneck cartridge. One of many 450's out there.

Since the rifle in question is a Westley Richards, my first guess is that it is chambered for the 500/450 No.1 BPE 2-3/4" necked cartridge (mentioned just above, and sometimes just referred to as the No.1 Express) that was brought out by W-R. The other possibility is that it is chambered for the even more popular, though not W-R designed, 450 3-1/4" BPE straight cartridge. These two are pretty much ballistic equals. The 3-1/4" version later evolved into the 450 Nitro Express 3-1/4" which became a standard in dangerous game fields.

Chamber casting, particularly in break-open arms, is very easy using a product called 'Cerrosafe'.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
Thanks for the reply... the rifle is on Steve Barnett's website under Double Rifles. Probably a reason it's priced the way it is. Casting chambers and making brass don't fall into my wheelhouse!

That rifle looks to have been engraved somewhere other than at WR.
Very probably in India.

The 450 No.1 Express is indeed a great cartridge no doubt.