I've been in NYC all this week for a fascinating industry trade show at the Javits Center. I managed to sneak away long enough to stop by the H&H gun room on 40th street.

What an experience. The gentleman who assisted me and my friends was extremely friendly and accommodating. I went in with two female colleagues who are definitely "non gun" people. When asked if he could help us, I told him I was just looking and "on a bit of a pilgrimage".

This did not diminish the level of attention he gave us, even though it was 5:30pm with a heavy snow storm rapidly approaching.

He answered the many questions of my novice friends (why do they cost so much? who really buys these things? why do you need a double barreled gun? what would you shoot with a gun this big? etc etc) while allowing me to handle anything in the store I wanted.

So, I hefted a 1908 Hollis and Sons double 470NE, a 1928 H&H Royal double in 375 Belted, and a 2010 O/U 410 bore shotgun made for the son of the former Secretary of the Treasury (Snow) awaiting pickup.


It was an altogether awesome experience both for myself as well as my non-shooting friends, who both now want a chance to shoot my CZ 375H&H and other rifles.

I mentioned the positive reviews the NYC gun room has received on AR, and he was well aware of the forum and was happy with the positive reputation the his location has garnered on this site. Also, without prompting, he admitted to the somewhat less friendly reputation the London gun room seems to be known for... but that NY guys "were working on them".

I asked what kind of traffic they saw in a normal day. His answer: the three of us were customers 7, 8 , and 9 for the day. I then asked how many in a given day were there to seriously buy vs. window shop like the three of us. His answer: normally 9 of 9 were "pilgrims" with less than "half a customer per day" serious. And without hesitation he added that that was no problem at all. He was happy to show and discuss these firearms with anyone, regardless of purchase intent. "We are all ambassadors of the sport".

The truly amazing thing was that this was the 4th "shopping" stop made by me and my two female friends that day. But they both clearly indicated it was the most interesting and was the one store they talked about that evening and the next day with other colleagues. The three other stores we visited that evening: Tiffany's, Breitling, and Bvlgari. Not bad when a gun shop can win the hearts and minds of two ladies over three jewelers.

If you are in the neighborhood (40th street between 5th and Madison), I highly recommend spending 30 minutes or so "window shopping".

Mrjulian,

Wow, that is so cool!!

Thats the sort of place I dream about going to (I live in KC). Would love to see all the guns there

But before hearing your story, I dont know if I would have gone in there. I would have probably been hesitant, because I just can't afford any of their guns (and probably will never have the money for it to make sense to own one). And thats the sort of place thats often run by very snobby people with bad attitudes.

But thats so neat how gracious that guy was.

That puts H&H up a notch higher in my book, even though the only thing I may ever own that says H&H on it is a 375 H&H Whitworth Express Mauser

Thanks for sharing!

mrjulian, good post! The word for the NY operation is: CLASS, the word for the London operation (if what you say is true) is: SNOB! I have no interest in Tiffanys but Breitling would be of interest. I hanker after their Bentley watch, and, of course, I would have to get the car to go with it.
Peter.

David Cruz and Guy are a big reason why that gunroom is doing so well. They are both class acts.

Mental note added to stop the next time I am in NYC

I was surprised that the 1928 Royal double was a belted .375 rather than a flanged cartridge. I always thought the concept of the belted .375 in a double was something of a recent development in response to customer demand. I guess if H&H was building a double with a belted .375 all the way back in 1928, it must work okay.

Except in a Blaser S2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean the S2, the finest double rifle ever!

Yeah...that one!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I was surprised that the 1928 Royal double was a belted .375 rather than a flanged cartridge. I always thought the concept of the belted .375 in a double was something of a recent development in response to customer demand. I guess if H&H was building a double with a belted .375 all the way back in 1928, it must work okay.

I found that odd as well and even asked about it. The salesman said it was relatively rare given the vintage but not unheard of.

I worked in NYC for a couple of years Monday through Friday.

I spent my very last afternoon in the city at Holland & Holland, and I am sure glad I did. The guys were as nice as could be even though I only bought a hat, book, and cleaning jag.

quote:

Originally posted by mrjulian_1970:
Not bad when a gun shop can win the hearts and minds of two ladies over three jewelers.

Now that's saying something!

Brett

I have been to the London H&H gun room on numerous occasions and each time the experience has been most favorable.

The staff are polite, attentive and only too willing to answer any questions.

I was able to handle ANY gun/rifle that I wished (provided I wiped the saliva off them when I had finished ).

I guess my experience is contrary to others.

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

I guess my experience is contrary to others.

It's your natural charm that wins them over every time, mate.

quote:

I went in with two female colleagues

This statement is no use without pictures!
Peter.

David Cruz is a pleasure. I particularly like the Holland 4 bore double with all its accouterments in their "Collection" If guns could talk.....
John

Is David the younger of the two gentlemen? I completely forgot to get his name once I walked in the door and started looking around the cabinets.

quote:

I have been to the London H&H gun room on numerous occasions and each time the experience has been most favorable.

The staff are polite, attentive and only too willing to answer any questions.

Now, if you want to see the "other" way it's done...go to Westley Richards in Birmingham!

Never been to the one in NYC. I have been to the one in London. What a bunch of pricks. I would never buy a gun from them. I have rarely seen such arrogance.

I've heard mixed bag on H&H in London. Purdey no mixed bag what so ever. They are the upmost of prickdome from everyone I've heard from. One friend said they had a "bouncer" at the door that wouldn't let him in. Seriously!

Brett

I have absolutely NO commercial interest with these 02 London gunmakers,

however I must stress what has been written here or heard is absolutely Inaccurate

There is no bouncer at London Purdey or Holland or Holland

I work a few hundred yards from them and walk pass them and drop in for a chat all the time

They do not have that attitude at all

The people who work there have been there for many years

What they are very good in doing is to spot punters who are sincere and genuine or just having a laugh

If you are the latter is the latter then I agree the attitude can be different and perfectly justifiable

So much bullshit on the internet ..........

How do you know what we experienced when we were there?

I had a long layover on my way to Africa with my 2 sons. We had a driver pick us up and take us to various places, one of which was H&H. We were escorted by this extraordinarily well dressed English gentleman who was opening the doors for us and falling all over himself to make sure we had a pleasant experience. I went in there with the intent of buying a double. If that makes me a "punter", they aren't worth a damn at spotting a real client.

These guys were first class pricks. Pompous and arrogant. It was so bad that our escort apologized to us. He was embarrassed that Englishmen acted that way. He should have been.

I agree with London Hunter in respect of any "attitude" from H & H.

They are, from my experience, the ONE out of the London makers where customer service is always 110% priority.

When you go in you are their most important customer of the day. Period.

Purdey? Hmm. In the 1980s they didn't really do "customer service" very well.

But...if you REALLY want to see "attitude" (and by that I mean BAD "attitude") visit Westley Richards in Birmingham.

My oldest son was just over. I asked him if he called us visiting H&H in London. He said he did. I asked him what he called about it. His response was,"They were jerks."

I've visted the NYC H&H store several times and and have always found it interesting. I also like the Beretta store over on Madison.
When I was in London a while back a priority of mine was to visit the London gun shops. Here's the report I wrote up from that trip that I posted on an AR forum when I got home that had some thoughts on the people that worked at some of the stores:


Posted Jul 14, 11:56 PM
I had a nice visit to several gun shops in London last week. I've wanted to check them out for years and got home last night after spending a week across the pond.
Considering how far from great days in the field most of the populace in England now is, finding a bit of the outdoors was a welcome change of pace. In fact, the current detachment from anything off the pavement was essentially discussed in an article in The London Times last week as they wrote about how most children in England were more likely to recognize a picture of some online or cartoon creature than the most basic of animals that live in the wild.
I was shopping with my daughter at Harrod's on the first day that we visited the stores. On the top floor you'll find an assortment of sporting goods. Much to my surprise, over in a corner, is a closet type area full of Beretta shotguns. Considering that most of the store is stocked with items that will occupy the interest of a housewife, this was an unexpected find. Of course this isn't your typical gun shop, but it was my start as I searched for sanity.
After leaving Harrod's I hopped in a cab and went the short distance to the Purdey store. It was very nice and the gun guy was pleasant to chat with, but the inventory was modest compared to my expectations. They had quite a few nice shotguns out, but no double rifles, which was my quest. Their clothing line has lost a bit of its appeal, however, since there seems to have been an effort to market it through outside distributors and outlets.
My next stop was at a long-time favorite, Holland and Holland. I've visited their NYC store several times, particularly before it was downsized and relocated, as well as when they had one in Beverly Hills where they tried to run it gunless (which, of course, failed).
H&H was full of guns of every variety, including a beautiful rack of double rifles. I tried not to drool but I'm sure they had to clean up the place after I left. Gorgeous guns that took a 3-year gunsmithing effort to make where lined up. Most were nearing the $200,000 price tag. The ones I held felt as good in my hands as a well-fitted 20 gauge I'd carry when hunting quail. You just couldn't help but ease it up and imagine the stare of a buffalo looking back at you.
Another nice feature at H&H was their gun clerk. Finding someone that could talk about Africa must be hard in their labor pool. In their case, however, the fellow from South Africa was very pleasant to visit with, and he knew well places like Moyowosi, Monduli, the Selous, Chirisa, and Lemco. He'll be hunting in Namibia next month.
Of course the clothing in H&H is about prohibitive to buy. Spot an item, imagine some very high price for it, triple that number, and then double it again and you might be getting close. The store is deathly void of serious shoppers and you wonder how they stay in business. I guess they make such a whack off that random guy that tries to see just how much he can spend that they are able to keep the lights on. A strange business plan they have.
My next stop was at the 3-story Beretta store on St James. This was a very refreshing stop as the combination of quality goods, large inventory, and reasonable prices made this a solid visit. They only had one SxS double rifle, and have had a second on backorder for 3 years, but we know that is not Beretta's focus. They did have several of the O/U double rifles, which really do feel good when held. They said they are quite popular in Europe. Their inventory of shotguns and bolt action rifles was very impressive; I particularly liked the new S10 they showed me. They had serious shoppers in there and broad enough inventory that I'm sure this store will be open whenever I visit there again.
My last stop was just down the street when I checked out William Evans. This store had a very "homey" feel without any attempt to make it pretentious or particularly upscale. Most of the items offered for sale had brand names that you might see in many other hunting or clothing stores and the clerks were pleasant but distant. Down an old staircase in the corner you'd curve around until you entered a basement gunroom. The large old table in the center of the room was one that I'd love to have for a similar purpose at home. The wall at the other end had shelves with worn but handsome leather cases holding a variety of good but used shotguns made by a scattering of the best in the trade. There was even a gun resting on the floor. Some basic gunsmithing tools were sitting around, along with other parts and cleaning items that you might have if you had a bundle of working guns at your home. Double rifles were absent, but I soon learned about a new 500NE they were having made that would be adorned by their finest engraver. They showed me the cracked barrels of a DR, previously owned by the "Born Free" fellow that had "doubled" and then needed to be replaced. William Evans was a very nice stop, but you won't confuse it with the pristine style of others I had seen.
London has changed a lot through the years and you won't find many people there that enjoy days in the field; you have to be careful about with whom you express an interest in hunting. That said, there currently are still some great stops there for the visiting sportsman that likes to simply look at some awesome firearms. Most things you'll see will still be there when you leave, but this was a case of window shopping I can fully endorse.

My son was working in London and had a flat near Paddington station. We went over the pond to visit him during our Thanksgiving holdays. We introduced some Brits to a USA holiday dinner and all the trimmings. What a wonderful day. I gave up bear season, but knew I would have to visit the museums and the gun stores on St. James street. We made a plan and off we went. First stop H&H and you would not believe, they could not be bothered and I said hello the the saleroom gentleman. Stuck up his nose and walked away. I wanted to slap him across the head. Doesn't cost a penny to be polite and to say hello.
Then we stopped a few doors down and got buzzzed into Boss & Company. They were like long lost cousins. We chatted about goubleguns and he told me they were going to be at SCI Reno. Then down the street to Purdey also very nice and polite and was showed the whole shop by a young hunter and salesperson.
To sum it all up I wish I could win a large lottery in the USA walk into H&H and ask for the boss and sales staff and open the briefcase and show them the 2 million inside. Tell them they are not getting a f----in penny , but I am going to Boss, Purdey, and WR's to order multiple rifles.

Mike

I have asked this question before but did not receive an answer, perhaps because no one knows, but:
What is the profit margin on these guns that H&H sells? it must be huge to compensate for the lack of volume in sales, and the overhead of maintaining a store front.
Peter.

Mike

David Cruz at H&H in NYC is the big exception! He has always been very friendly and polite. For the first time I closed a deal with him on a .500/.465 last Saturday in Vegas. The experience could not have been any more pleasant. If not for David, I probably would never have bought directly from Holland.

quote:

Originally posted by mrjulian_1970:
If you are in the neighborhood (40th street between 5th and Madison), I highly recommend spending 30 minutes or so "window shopping".

If I was 'in that neighborhood' it's because someone had a gun to my head. Literally. Manhattan? That's the last place in North America I'd visit. Perhaps I didn't get the same 'experience' but I fondled some very nice (and pricey) guns at Griffin & Howe in Bernardsville, New Jersey. I drove there on my Harley and got to park under a shade tree!

They could give Manhattan back to the Indians for all I'd care. A fetid and festering sewer of humanity if there ever was one. I get a cold shiver up my spine just thinking about that place.

I was there last year. My wife and I love to visit NYC from time to time, stay at a nice hotel, dinner, maybe a show and for me of course a visit to H&H. Great place to visit. jorge

quote:

and a 2010 O/U 410 bore shotgun made for the son of the former Secretary of the Treasury (Snow) awaiting pickup.

So much for confidence at Holland and Holland...

I visited the NY gun rooms of H&H in 2007 and the young guy there was very friendly and attentive. I was very impressed with his genuine interest in my comments and questions. When I spoke of my Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles he took me into the back rook to show me the H&H collection which is not for sale. He even let me take detailed photos of a nice take down 1910 model!

I have visited all the major gunrooms in London and was treated well by all. H&H were most friendly and I still converse with them.
Whether you like Manhattan or not is a personal thing, it can be overwhelming but to know it is to like it. Not many other places in the world can offer the culture, arts, and food of NYC. I have spent weeks on end in Alaska in a tent in the snow and loved that as well. Two sides to every story....

quote:

Originally posted by jaz:
I have visited all the major gunrooms in London and was treated well by all. H&H were most friendly and I still converse with them.
Whether you like Manhattan or not is a personal thing, it can be overwhelming but to know it is to like it. Not many other places in the world can offer the culture, arts, and food of NYC. I have spent weeks on end in Alaska in a tent in the snow and loved that as well. Two sides to every story....

Im looking forward to seeing the guys at SCI next week. Like a kid in a candy store at that show!

jaz and SINNER

I picked a hell of a year to miss Reno. Oh well, my pockets are turned inside out from Vegas.

John, tell us if you will about the tent stories. Hope it isn't from " Brokeback Mountain."

Don
Forgive my typing as I had rotator cuff surgery yesterday, and for hijacking this thread.
I was spring bear hunting and one at a time, the guide who is a friend (and no, not that kind) and I flew out to camp, just a tent, about a hundred miles from Dillingham. We set a tent up but the ground is covered in 9 feet of snow. You must wear snowshoes walking anywhere, as you would "posthole" up to your crotch if not. Every morning we climbed about 800 feet an glassed for bears emerging from their dens. What is amazing is that everything is pure white as far as you could see. You could spot a crow miles away. I watched a bear attack a moose and fight for 20 minutes before the moose kicked him repeatedly and the bear walked away. That was 2 miles from us. Anyway, you would then snowshoe miles to intercept the bear.
What was funny was that the guide would throw bacon fat out the door of the tent a few feet away. Concerned, I asked about attracting bears and he replied that we were hunting bear! On the 13th day of a 14 day hunt, we spotted a bear sleeping along a river thicket about 3 miles away. We were able to sneak within 80 yards of him. The guide whistled, the bear picked up his head and I put 270 grains from a .375 beneath his ear. he never budged.
Sorry, no brokeback stories as you will need to contact David for those....



i

John, here's wishing you a speedy recovery! Hope to see you and your W.R. Droplock .470 soon!!

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by mrjulian_1970:
If you are in the neighborhood (40th street between 5th and Madison), I highly recommend spending 30 minutes or so "window shopping".

If I was 'in that neighborhood' it's because someone had a gun to my head. Literally. Manhattan? That's the last place in North America I'd visit. Perhaps I didn't get the same 'experience' but I fondled some very nice (and pricey) guns at Griffin & Howe in Bernardsville, New Jersey. I drove there on my Harley and got to park under a shade tree!

They could give Manhattan back to the Indians for all I'd care. A fetid and festering sewer of humanity if there ever was one. I get a cold shiver up my spine just thinking about that place.

To each his own.

Have you been to Times Square since Dinkins lost re-election? Midtown and south is a very different place than it was 15-20 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:


John, here's wishing you a speedy recovery! Hope to see you and your W.R. Droplock .470 soon!!

I would also like to see the 470 WR!