I am loading for a Heym 89 450 N.E. The bullets of choice are the Cutting Edge 295gr. Super short safari raptor and the 325gr. safari solid. The target velocity is 2200 fps. I am not as concerned about regulation as I am accuracy with each barrel. Re-regulation is on the table if the accuracy load does not regulate. The goal is a leathal (for Buffalo) load that my client will be able to tolerate the recoil with.

I will be using Hornady brass and Fed 215 mag. primers. I have a varied assortment of Alliant, Hogdon, and IMR powders. I would like to use one of the temp stable powders if possible. I also have Win. stabal 6.5. I am open to powder type and start load suggestions. Also, how much air space is acceptable before a filler is required, and what do you guys like. Thanks in advance.

I will attempt to help here since nobody has responded,I do not load for a 450NE,but I do load for a 470,500-416,458 Lott etc,I routinely use different bullet weights than what the standard regulation loads are comprised of,if the game that I am after is smaller? I reduce the weight of my bullet,I use QL as a guide to powders & loads,sometimes you can get by with the same powder & a lower charge,for ex,in my 470 a 500 gr bullet takes 87 gr RL15 with foam filler to regulate,in the same gun,I use 83 gr of RL15 with 400 gr bullets,killed a lot of Warties with that load.Anything below 90% case fill gets a filler,I am reciting all this from memory,I do not have my notes in front of me at the moment.
First of,I would get a good chrono,work with existing load data from the powder manufacturer that you intend to use,lower it by at least 15% & work up,you want to use two different weights of bullets?I suggest that you find a common weight,for ex,I use Woodleigh soft & solids both 500 gr in my 470.
You can also use the search function to get info on loading for the 450 NE on here.

OSA,
When I first got my .450 I couldn't get it to regulate with light bullets worth a crap. No matter what combo I tried, they'd cross. I finally gave up......for a while. Something made me try the nitro for black loads recommend by Graeme Wright and Ross Seyfried. Bingo!!!
Perfect regulation, low recoil and less expense. The formula has worked for me in 2 rifles with bullets from 300 to 350 grains cast or jacketed.
Start with 48 grains of IMR4198 and about 13 grains of dacron pillow stuffing pushed down on top of the powder and a large rifle primer. I also use and prefer using 1/2" backer rod as a filler. Just measure from the top of the powder to where the base of the seated bullet will and cut to length.
The fillers are tedious but worth the effort.

With the 48 grain load I'm getting right at or just over 1900 fps.

Good luck.

I haven't tried light bullets in my 89B .450 NE but it shoots both 480 and 500 grain loads very well. My standard load with the 480's is 94 grains of IMR-4350 with a Federal 215 primer in Hornady cases. The two barrels will put the bullets within an inch of each other at 50 metres.

Search “the 75% rule “

As an additional data point, 450-3.25 in my V-C, I use CEB's 420g Raptors and 450g Solids over 92 grains RL19 w/Fed 215 in Hornady brass, no filler. Chrono just over 2000 FPS average Rt/Lft barrel. These group (offhand) within an 1.25-1.50 of each other consistently, when I do my job. For a reduced load I run 53 grains 5744 under a Barnes 450 TSX (got'em cheap) for approx ~ 1775 RT/LFT barrel for practice, regulates fairly well for the intended purpose. 5744 is not position sensitive in lower charges and no filler needed. Ran Hornady 458-480's but rifle appears more consistent with the CEB's.

As mentioned above a chrony to aid in your load development will save you loads of frustration and time here. HTH.

What Double BC says....,
If you can purchase Graham Wrights book Shooting the British Double it one of the best resources out there on loading for a Double Rifle ....
I will go out on a limb and guess that your Double was regulated with Hornady 480gr bullets with a velocity around 2000fps.. (Hornady's are known to be slow)... the 75% rule is if you shoot a Bullet 75% less than regulated over the same load it should hit POA POI in this case 75% 0f 480 is approx a 350gr bullet... Unlike a Single barreled gun, With a double anytime you venture away from bullet weight, velocity and even bullet shape you are entering a world of the unknown and every gun will be different... Powder is one of the better ways to mitigate recoil The difference between a RL15 load and a H4831 loads both powders used in the 450 can equate to more that 10lbs of recoil..

I had excellent results with 5744 in my 450/400 with lighter bullets but my .450 doesn't like it. It's well worth a try though. The 75% rule didn't work in my .450 either. The nitro for black loads were the ticket. Doubles can be finicky for sure.

Most people on here know more about this than I do, but my experience to date with working up loads with lighter bullets for doubles has been as the bullet weight decreases, the velocity decreases to remain regulated.

Based on my experiences, I doubt you'll be able to attain your targeted 2,200 fps and remain reasonably regulated at 50m or yds.

In my 450 3-1/4", I finally settled on 61 grains of IMR 3031 for a 300 grain TSX (2,058 fps). This particular gun was regulated for 450 grain bullets (71 grains IMR, 2,130 fps).

In my 470, it takes 59 grains of IMR for a 350 grain CES (1,850 fps) to match the regulation of the original 500 grain at 2,150 fps.

As for air space, IMR 3031 leaves plenty and I fill with foam backer rod from ACE or any other hardware store. Leaves some crap in the barrel after a few shots - so I pass a bore snake thru each barrel frequently and then clean fairly often.

quote:

Originally posted by nhoro:
Most people on here know more about this than I do, but my experience to date with working up loads with lighter bullets for doubles has been as the bullet weight decreases, the velocity decreases to remain regulated.

Based on my experiences, I doubt you'll be able to attain your targeted 2,200 fps and remain reasonably regulated at 50m or yds.

In my 450 3-1/4", I finally settled on 61 grains of IMR 3031 for a 300 grain TSX (2,058 fps). This particular gun was regulated for 450 grain bullets (71 grains IMR, 2,130 fps).

In my 470, it takes 59 grains of IMR for a 350 grain CES (1,850 fps) to match the regulation of the original 500 grain at 2,150 fps.

As for air space, IMR 3031 leaves plenty and I fill with foam backer rod from ACE or any other hardware store. Leaves some crap in the barrel after a few shots - so I pass a bore snake thru each barrel frequently and then clean fairly often.

Interesting,he might have to go higher than regulation velocity with a lighter bullet,the last load development was with my 500-416,a 410 gr bullet standard load is 2300-2350 fps,I picked up a load that regulates perfectly,a 300 TSX @ 2600fps.I find that the lighter bullets regulate at a higher velocity in my guns,my 470 NE with a 400 gr gives me over 2200 fps with great regulation.

So many newbie folks want to deal with a double like it was a bolt action, they are not, they are limited to one load and that is the regulation load as it should be, why thats not acceptable I cannot understand. The world of the double is not compatable with a modern bolt action and it need not be...The urge to shoot monolithic is beyond in that a Woodleigh soft or solid will print together and kill a whale with a body shot?? Am I stirring up

Guys, thanks for all the help. A lot of you are trying to help me with regulation, and that is not a concern for me. Don't care if they cross one's high one's low or if they happen to regulate fine. I am only concerned with finding a load that doesn't produce too much recoil for my friend that will still kill Buffalo. 2200 fps. is the goal with that bullet. It is more than enough. Thanks.

quote:

So many newbie folks want to deal with a double like it was a bolt action, they are not, they are limited to one load and that is the regulation load as it should be, why that's not acceptable I cannot understand.

The urge to shoot monolithic is beyond in that a Woodleigh soft or solid will print together and kill a whale with a body shot.

100%

The manufacturers were not idiots when they designed loads and projectiles to match required optimal performance and velocities which for DRs is pretty much standard at a sweet spot of 2,150fps.

Having recently (last 10 years) evolved from DR first timer/newbie to a fairly capable hand loader and shooter, I give much credit to the book Double Rifle Primer by Cal Pappas.
It addresses every issue brought up in this thread and "it ain't rocket science" ( I once worked for some rocket scientists at GRCSW and that is a whole 'nother world).
I could answer some of the above questions and correct some misstatements, but we will all be better off if those with questions get a copy of Cals book and answer the questions yourselves.

Thanks, Cal.

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Having recently (last 10 years) evolved from DR first timer/newbie to a fairly capable hand loader and shooter, I give much credit to the book Double Rifle Primer by Cal Pappas.
It addresses every issue brought up in this thread and "it ain't rocket science" ( I once worked for some rocket scientists at GRCSW and that is a whole 'nother world).
I could answer some of the above questions and correct some misstatements, but we will all be better off if those with questions get a copy of Cals book and answer the questions yourselves.

Thanks, Cal.

Thanks for the kind words. The British Bore Rifle is sold out and The .600 Nitro Express sold out yesterday. I have about 30 copies of The Double Rifle Primer remaining. I depart the 21st for foour weeks in SA and Zim. Any orders will be filled upon my return.
Again, thanks.
Cal

This is interesting as I have been loading some 395 gr cast bullets in my .470NE. A full case of Trail Boss gives me a good group at 50 yds. I think my speeds are running around 1400 fps. Experimenting with other powders currently.

3584Elk, That would be a nice and would kill well. Brian

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
…they are limited to one load and that is the regulation load as it should be, why thats not acceptable I cannot understand.

That’s partially true.
Holland & Holland loaded two bullet weights in their 500/450.
I don’t recall if the charge of cordite remained the same for both but the bullet weight difference was smack on the 75% formula.
Pretty sure George Gibbs did the same even earlier with their 461.

OSA will just have to experiment but I’d think that something acceptable can be found.

I have found the loading for the 450 NE to be rather easy to find all kinds of loads from serious hunting loads for DG to plinking loads with pistol bullets and other loads as well. BUT,I have always found good loads for all my rifles and will use different powders, bullets and primers to find the best. Might be because I enjoy working up accurate loads but I also keep a log on every rifle and see what works and what has not. For regulating doubles the more effort the better chance of finding the best regulation. I should also add the the 450 NE is a caliber that many different bullets can be found and that can help a lot.

The 75% seems to work for most, thats about it IMO...The best way to get around double rifle recoil is shoot the 9.3x64 as regulated..

You can play around a tad with double rifle loads, but not a hell of a lot, thats a re-regulation start from scratch and then the std. reg load will no longer work, so you tally off to Africa and the airlines loses your luggage and ammo..Where will you find a 200 and ? round to shoot the buffalo? Maybe Im just too basic but a factory Woodleigh would be best for a successful expensive safari. Don't mean to rain on your party and thats up to you, but just saying...

I believe there is a big misunderstanding between "sighting in" and "regulating" among the masses?? or so it seems to me...

I would use a back door approach if you are set on using that bullet at that velocity. Fire up the chrony and use the slowest powder you can to keep the case as full as possible. Once you hit the target velocity then play around and find an accurate load. If tweaking the load up or down doesn’t help you dial in the regulation send both the rifle and ammo to JJ and have him regulate it for that load.
But if recoil is that important you might advise your friend to drop down to the 450/400.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
So many newbie folks want to deal with a double like it was a bolt action, they are not, they are limited to one load and that is the regulation load as it should be, why thats not acceptable I cannot understand. The world of the double is not compatable with a modern bolt action and it need not be...The urge to shoot monolithic is beyond in that a Woodleigh soft or solid will print together and kill a whale with a body shot?? Am I stirring up

Ray some double nitro rifles were regulated with lighter Tropical loads, by lighter I mean less cordite and sometimes, especially for rifles for India with lighter bullets. Mine shoot fine with standard weight bullets.

As for monolithic solids, it was recommended to me by a knowledgeable person mentioned above that the Woodleigh Hydro bullets were better and lower pressure in Pre-war Rifles. I think Michaels pressure tests bore this out.