I would like to know if there anyone trying to Wildcat the .460 or .500 S&W caiber for doublerifle? I think this would make round for dangerous game.

I don´t think that those calibers make any sense as a "Dangerous Game caliber".

Rather go for a .450 N.E., .470 N.E. or a .500 N.E.

My 10 cents

quote:

Originally posted by big will:
I would like to know if there anyone trying to Wildcat the .460 or .500 S&W caliber for double rifle? I think this would make round for dangerous game.

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
I don´t think that those calibers make any sense as a "Dangerous Game caliber".

Rather go for a .450 N.E., .470 N.E. or a .500 N.E.

My 10 cents

Big Will I think I have to agree with Husky on this one to some degree! However bot those cartridges would make fine small double rifles for North America for even the largest deer like moose, and elk is heavy timber or black bear over bait from a stand, or following bear and lion dogs.

I used to have a pack of bear & lion dogs in New Mexico a few years back, and I built a little double rifle with very short .30 cal 1/10 twist barrels (20 Inch) chambered for 30-30 Win regulated for factory Winchester 170 gr ammo. It was built on a 20 gauge Browning BSS shotgun action. That little rifle was very easy to carry on a sling while following those dogs over the canyon country if the Gila wilderness and Saddleback mountains of New Mexico.

A double rifle built the same way barreled for either of the cartridges you mention, would be the nuts for even Alaskan Brown bear protection while fishing there or Leopard on bait or with dogs, but for any of the other members of the big five in Africa, I’d rather have the suggestions Husky gives.

Of course it is simply up to you, and certainly none of anyone elses business what you build! The above is simply my opinion, and you know what they say about opinion, like another orifice, everybody has one!

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Those are factory cartridges; what did you propose to "wildcat" them to? A Wildcat is a cartridge made by altering some existing cartridge in some way such as caliber, length, case angles, etc. But you know that. As for a DR cartridge as is, neither of them offer anything useful over what is already available; i.e., the .460 (at much higher pressure) won't do anything the 45-70 won't already do. As for a small .500; ok for a small/med stuff at very short range. Not useful, imo. And neither is suitable in any way for DG. Except as a trick; I know pistol shooters have killed buff with them; no hate mail please from you. I have built a few .500 Linebaughs on Ruger frames and that is basically like shooting a 50-90 out of a pistol; Powerful for a revolver but weak for a DG rifle. And they will notch your head if you aren't careful with them. You know what I mean.

For D/G I'll vote for:

450 NE: http://ammoguide.com/?catid=152
instead of 460 S&W
499 HE: http://ammoguide.com/?catid=749
instead of 500 S&W

I'm betting with todays powders both of my suggested rounds could be shortened
to 3 inches, and still give 2150 FPS, (or greater in the right type of actions), AND
stay within safe pressure levels...

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:

I'm betting with todays powders both of my suggested rounds could be shortened
to 3 inches, and still give 2150 FPS, (or greater in the right type of actions), AND
stay within safe pressure levels...

Why mess with sucess? A quarter inch is nothing to worry about.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:

I'm betting with todays powders both of my suggested rounds could be shortened
to 3 inches, and still give 2150 FPS, (or greater in the right type of actions), AND
stay within safe pressure levels...

Why mess with sucess? A quarter inch is nothing to worry about.

Reduce the potential need for fillers.

Maybe what Big Will means is that a 460 or a.500 S/W with a 20-22" barrel could produce enough speed and energy so to qualify for a DG load. And I think there would no need to "wildcat" them.
A similar round, the 454 Casull, produces 2000-2100 fps with a 300 grains bullet when shot in a 20" Rossi carbine, so a 500 S&W, with a 500 grains bullet could probably yield a similar speed.
The trouble is that the 454 needs 50.000 psi and probably the other two handgun cartidges mentioned work with similar pressures. And those pressures are too much for a double rifle. It is much easier to begin with the old NE cartridges and their big cases.

These cartridges were meant to absolutely maximize power in a handgun platform. At 50-65K pressures, they're not what a DR should loaded with.

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:

Reduce the potential need for fillers.

Fillers aren't anything to worry about.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:

Reduce the potential need for fillers.

Fillers aren't anything to worry about.

There are MANY who argue the opposite position.

An undeniable fact though is, that if they can be avoided
it is better to avoid them; as the fewer steps there are
to a reloading process the less likelihood there is for an
error to be made. K.I.S.S. say the engineers of the world.

It's not that much extra and has been proven to work fine by many here and around the world for many years.

Read Graeme Wrights book for a starter.
"Shooting the British Double Rifle"

Fillers just have a reputation,why nobody knows,you want to shoot DR's? learn how to reload

I'm with Biebs--pressures are too high for a double. Buy a 4-bore.
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:

Reduce the potential need for fillers.

Fillers aren't anything to worry about.

There are MANY who argue the opposite position.

An undeniable fact though is, that if they can be avoided
it is better to avoid them; as the fewer steps there are
to a reloading process the less likelihood there is for an
error to be made. K.I.S.S. say the engineers of the world.

Many double rifle cartridges filler can be avoided with the use of certain powders like IMR 4831 for example.

Brett

PS. I see ZERO practical reason or advantage for the fore mentioned cartridges and the re-sale would be SEVERELY affected by being chambered in these bazar double rifle cartridges.

The state of Indiana requires the cartridge case be under 2 inches to be leagle for deer. That might be a fairly esoteric reason to build such a thing but I'm here right now came down for a wedding and I've been watching deer e dry night out behind my brother in laws house.

Why not just pick up a Ruger #1 in 460 S&W or .475 Linebaugh/480 Ruger?

Shorter brass means more efficient powder burn.
Ask this, if today was the day that for the first
time, a .458 caliber DR intended cartridge was
being invented, how long would the brass be?
I'd bet 3 inch max. And if used in B. Bradshaws
Farquharson DR, maybe 2.5" and you'd still get
2150 FPS, with 500 grain bullets at acceptable
pressure, and no extanious filler.

quote:

as the fewer steps there are
to a reloading process the less likelihood there is for an
error to be made. K.I.S.S. say the engineers of the world.

So in the theme of K.I.S.S you find it more simple to design and chamber an entirely new cartridge and build a custom one off wildcat double instead of simply putting a little filler or better yet using a bulk powder when you reload?

I'm not getting the simple part here?

By all means if you want to build this rifle and cartridge go for it. But don't try and convince the world that a total redesign and one off build is the "simple" solution when in reality it takes about 1 second to stuff a little Dacron into the nose of your cartridge before seating a bullet. OR you can simply use a powder like IMR 4831 and skip the filler all together.

You are coming up for a solution to a nonexistent problem.

The 500 S&W and 460 S&W are way too much pressure for a double rifle build. Go with something already out there... Doubles are different than bolt guns...not a good platform for trying new things with.
Also, the whole "romance" thing with a double, is to shoot the old cool NE and BPE cartridges.
ND