The Accurate Reloading Forums
450/400 3" vs 3.25"
450/400 3" vs 3.25"
Lets assume we have two DRs that are exactly the same (price,fit,finish)...both are 450/400s.
One is in 3", other in 3.25"...
Which do you choose and why?
DRSS &
Bolt Action Trash
30 July 2010, 23:53
dirklawyer3" in every way. Availability of Components and ammo for the 3" much easier to attain. Ballistics for both are basically the same.
"An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument"
30 July 2010, 23:59
MikeBurkeAs stated above ballistics are the same.
Powder, primers, and bullets (depending on bore diameter) are also the same. I lucked out with mine, it shoots .410 bullets.
I have easily found brass, shellholders, and dies for my 3 1/4".
With Hornady loading the 3" components can be easier to find, but do not shy away from the 3 1/4" if the right deal presents itself.
Plus the 3 1/4" rounds looks cool.
All things in the rifle equal maybe the 3"
31 July 2010, 00:00
MacD37quote:
Originally posted by dirklawyer:
3" in every way. Availability of Components and ammo for the 3" much easier to attain. Ballistics for both are basically the same.
Absolutely! There is one other reason if buying an older classic. Many of the rifles chambered for 450/400 3 1/4" were black powder, or nitro for black powder rifles, re-proofed for cordite! So you have to be careful what you buy, and make sure it was origenally a cordite rifle.
The 450/400NE 3" was never available for black powder, so any rifle you buy chambered for the 3" version is automaticlly a cordite rifle!
....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
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I'd go for the 3" but not for the reason's of availability of components.
Brass has been available for the 3 1/4" version just as much as the 3"
and the 3 1/4"can be made from 450 Basic brass which was more easily obtained early on.
Now of course with hornady, it's a different matter.
Bullets are the same and always available so that is not really an issue.
I'd get the 3" because IMHO reloading is easier, less prone to ripping the rim off and IMHO being a slightly shorter case is easier to reload and handle in the field.
.
As stated above the 3 inch. Rim is thicker.
Rusty
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31 July 2010, 09:10
Idaho SharpshooterThis poses an interesting ballistics question.
Is the 3" likely to shoot smaller spreads because it would be less dependent on a filler wad for a given powder charge? Loading density percentage would be greater.
Rich
DRSS
31 July 2010, 10:12
Omnivorous_BobRich, I think their case capacities are almost identical. I'll measure a few empties filled with water in a bit to see for sure, but the body of the 3" case is much longer than on the long necked 3.25".
DRSS
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"PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!"
31 July 2010, 11:25
Omnivorous_BobWell, my measurements of a single unfired HDS 3" case and an unfired Bertram shows the 3.25" case to be 2.3% larger to the base of the bullet.
Bob
DRSS
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
"PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!"
quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
This poses an interesting ballistics question.
Is the 3" likely to shoot smaller spreads because it would be less dependent on a filler wad for a given powder charge? Loading density percentage would be greater.
Rich
DRSS
Use a powder that fills the case and you don't need a wad in the 3 1/4".
.
quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
This poses an interesting ballistics question.
Is the 3" likely to shoot smaller spreads because it would be less dependent on a filler wad for a given powder charge? Loading density percentage would be greater.
Rich
DRSS
Is it not generally concluded that wads make for more consistent velocities? The down side is they produce higher pressures.
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31 July 2010, 19:58
470EvansThis is an interesting question. The 3" has the ease of factory ammo and maybe easier to get components so would be my pick in a new gun.
In a vintage gun there are other items to consider with the 450/400. I'd prefer one with 26" barrels and prooved for 60 cordite as I'm likely to get another 100 - 150 fps at the regulation speed vs. a 55 cordite gun and 24" barrels.
If both vintage guns were the same in all regard the 3" gets picked but not by much. The good news is it's a hypothetical question and in reality there will be differences in the vintage guns so I'd let the gun decide.
01 August 2010, 04:42
Frank Martinezquote:
Bullets are the same and always available so that is not really an issue.
Not necessarily true. My Osbourne was .408 most others are .411. Now with Hornady there are far more choices for .411.
I have used both the 3.25 and the 3 and found the 3inch easier to reload using the RC. that extra bit of length and increase need of press stroke was an issue. The 3.25 would also need additional filler using similar powders.
Frank