I am becomming more and more facinated with the old bore doublerifles ( 12, 10. 8 and 4), and shooting my own 10 bore, I am becomming convinced, that when going on a DG in africa one day, my 10 bore should play the leading role, and only have a .416Rigby as a backup.

What would have best stoppingpower on let say charging buff , front shot .A .600Nitro with 900 grain bullets@ 1900Ft/sec.. or a 8 bore(.875cal) loaded with 12 drams black, shooting a 1300grain leadbullet @ 1600 ft/sec?.
I know both calibers a stoppers, but one(.600) has fairly heavy bullet with fairly decent velocty, but smaller bore...where the old 8 bore has bulletweight, diameter as parforce, but less velocity.

The first question that pops into my feeble mind is reliability. That .600 can be counted on to go off practically every time you pull the trigger, something that cannot be said of the more complicated (and fragile) firing train of a blackpowder rifle.

Misfires may be rare, but they are certainly more frequent with the BP over the centerfire, and if buff in cover is the game it only takes one...

Jefffive:
I can't agree with your statement that the firing train (ignition) of a black powder cartridge is somehow less reliable than smokeless.

Absent empirical data there is no reason that black powder will fail to ignite or is prone to any other type of ignition failures than smokeless.

I have fired over 15,000 rounds of black powder cartridges in the last 18 years and the only failure to fire in recent memory I have experienced was an original Kynoch 450 3 1/4 smokeless load from 1973.

Whether Swiss, Goex, or older cans of Dupont I have had great success. I even purchased an original box of 50 Winchester 25-20SS blackpowder loads with their "new staynless" primers. Every round ignited and with great accuracy (at 25 yards). Took a rabbit with a head shot from a special sporting low-wall take-down model that day in sub-zero weather (including sleet) and wrote a story about it for Black Powder Cartridge News.

Great stuff, Black Powder


Dutch

Dutch,

I have no doubt you're right about black powder cartridges, I was assuming (probably wrongly) that most or all of the "bore" rifles were muzzle-loading rifles using a percussion cap rather than a primer built into a cartridge.

They both sound pretty nasty to me. But, the only thing about the physics I remember is F=MA , or force equals mass times acceleration. End result: increase the mass or the speed to increase force. I'm sure this is useless info (all of a sudden my feeble mind seems to remember there is a difference between velocity and acceleration), but I am curious as to the answer on this one as well..
Rick

Jens, there is a reason that the bore rifles died out. Nitro Express rounds.

Keith

Jens,

You might want to consider how fast you would be able to resale a 10 bore vs a .600. The 600NE will go lightning quick vs a 10 bore.

Like Keith points out there was a reason bore rifles died out. Nitro express came along))

Get yourself a .600NE and go on down the road. Load it down or full tilt to about 1800fps. Keep in mind the velocity reduction for shorter barrels (24") vs the proof house length of 28". I would strongly recommend 24" barrels and nothing longer for the big 6.

Bike Rider

Use your double ten bore and never look back. (but quench harden the bullets so they don't expand too much.)

FWIW, I fired some ~525 grain lead cast bullets into a dead bull elephant's head for a 45/70 afficianado who will probably never make it to Africa but who was curious. MV = 1500fps (from my 458wm) and the two 20:1 bullets penetrated from the front through the skull. They broke up a bit, but they made it, penetrating about 5-6" less than 300gr Woodleighs from a 375H&H. The two 30:1 bullets didn't make it out of the skull.

My take is that while they aren't up to elephants, I would use the harder bullets on buff without sweating too much. Move from the 45/70 and 525grs at 1500fps to the 10 bore and you have moved up three notches.

JPK

I would certainly not let the gun bearer carry my .416 Rigby backup rifle under those circumstances..Have it on your left shoulder and good luck, Lets us know how it goes.

I have read many accounts of kills with those old big bores, and none of them impressed me with the killing power as described in those written words..I have an old book given to me by Phillip Prices dad, about an Englishman that hunted all of Africa on foot with a 8 bore, 4 bore and to a lesser extent with a 2 bore that had a habit of skidding him along the track on rainy days in the mud!!

He had two guns, would put one under a specific tree then would shoot the Rhino with the 4 bore, drop it, then scoot up said tree and wait for the animals death or for him to lie down then he would scoot down grab the other rifle give old Rhino another ball and then scoot back up on his perch..He even spent a few nights trying not to fall out of his perch from lack of sleep...He was one tough old bird but finally succombed to black water fever..