I know that IMR 4831 is one of the best powders to use for the 470 without using a filler. I do not want to use a filler so R-15 is out of the question. I thought about using IMR 4350 which has a similar burn rate as R-15 yet it will fill the case nicely, not as nice as the 4831 will. Anyone out there that has used the IMR 4350 for 470? In my rifle (Searcy 470) 106 grains of the IMR 4831 gives me 2150fps I am wanting to load some with IMR 4350 I am thinking 100 grains but wanting some feedback before I blast away. My intended purpose is purely exercising the KISS principle, most of my big game rifle battery I own I use IMR 4350 and R-15 powders (30-06 double rifle-4350, 9.3x74R double rifle-R15, 375 H&H-R15), the IMR 4831 powder is only used in the 470, thus, if the 470 will regulate well with the IMR 4350 one less powder on the shelf.

Better buy some more shelves.

You have two rifles that shoot like two rifles. It just so happens they are joined together.

Double rifles do not reload like other rifles. If there is one powder that works, use it. You can experiment with other powders, but using a powder the rifle was not regulated with will cause severe hair loss.

And be real careful with those charts. The powder may be close on the chart, but it is miles away from what you need.

Double rifles are used to a diet of one load. If your double shoots well with one powder, chances are that it will not shoot well with another powder.

And don't make the mistake of comparing it to a bolt gun.

You can experiment with different loads. But no load will perform like the load your double was regulated with.

And if you do own a double rifle, you need to realize this is not like anything you have owned in the past.

Someone posted the address of the Speer data that shows that Speer obtained the highest velocity (just barely) with IMR 4350.

Speer data range with the TB Bearclaw:

104 gr. (2141 fps) to 110 gr. (2278 fps).

But they state that IMR 4350 doesn't fill the case and may have better results with RL-22, etc., etc.

Could try it and see what happens.

I just started reloading for a Merkel 470. I have started with H4831SC. So far the best is 106 gr. of H4831SC, F215, Jameson Brass, 500 gr Woodleigh Soft. I Chronographed it at an average of 2077 for 4 shots. Right Barrel had 2 shots @ .452, Left Barrel .040, composite Group of 1.89. At 50 yards this group shot 2" above POA.

Just curious, where do your doubles shot in relation to the POA at 50 yds?

Mike

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tradewinds: Just curious, where do your doubles shot in relation to the POA at 50 yds?

Mike, My 30-06 Merkle is regulated at 100 meters with a scope so I was able to play with the open sights enough that with open sights is shoots .5 inches high at 50 and at 200 I can hit a 10 inch target. My 470 is on at 50 yds.

Hey guys, just got back from the range today with some personal findings that some of you might find interesting. 100 grains of IMR 4350 regulates well in my rifle but I am going to stay with the IMR 4831. If you have read Graeme Wright's book he mentions that some top notch guides down under that shoot the 500 N.E. noticed a significant difference in felt recoil between the IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 powders in their guns. They chose the IMR 4350 because all things being equal between the two powders (pressures, velocities, etc.) the 4350 had less felt recoil in their 500's. My findings are different in the 470N.E. I noticed the 4350 recoil being more abrupt, as most of you know it is a faster burning powder than the 4831. In fact when I shot the 4350 at 2100+fps the trigger guard would wack my middle finger pretty good on my trigger hand. With the 4831 the recoil duration seemed longer but the trigger guard never wacked my middle finger on my shooting hand, thus no pain = less of a chance of a developing a flinch in the future. Anybody else noticed this phenomena? The R-15 used in Federal's load (I've heard around 89 grains) has a burn rate like the IMR 4350) how would you rate this with IMR 4831 reloads of 105-6 grains, alot more powder to burn should equate to more recoil, more felt recoil?

Maybe someone will chime in with more experience than I but "in my mind" the RL loads "seem" to have less recoil than the 4831 loads. In theory it should be less, but it could be my imagination.

I can't tell much difference in the recoil between the RL-15 (with filler) versus the H4831SC (no filler) loads.

I was converted to H4831SC by the better accuracy and no fuss with filler. H4831SC is perfect.

Brass makes a difference. Jamison may be thicker/less internal capacity and use less powder for same velocity. That is a plus with the .470 NE.

My loads with BeLL brass required 108 to 110 grains of powder, depending on the bullet, to get velocities of about 2150 fps +/- 25 fps depending on the bullet and charge.

Pressures with RL-15 will be about 40,000 psi to regulate.

Pressures with H4831SC will be about 35,000 psi, and peaking further down the barrel.

RL-15 is quite a bit faster than any of the 4350's, and the 4350's are quite a bit faster than H4831SC. IMR4831 is faster than H4831SC.

Here is a target where a right and a left went into one hole at 50 meters, 109 grains of H4831SC and GM215M primer in BeLL brass with Original Jack Carter TBSH solids. Merkel .470 NE:





Iron sights, my eyes are still O.K.

In my 450 No2 RL 15 loads seems to have less recoil that IMR 4831.

I can't tell any difference in recoil between RL-15 and IMR-4831 or H-4831 in either my 465 Nitro or 470 Nitro. I have settled on 110 grs of H-4831 with the Woodleigh 500s in my 470. Same velocity for both (2,150) but the H-4831 shoots sub 1" grps at 50 yds. Since you use H-4831 or IMR-4831 to increase load density and reduce the need for fillers why use H-4831 SC over regular H-4831? You want to take up as much room in the case as possible. Also H-4831 is an extreme powder and is much less temperature sensitive than IMR-4831. So I have settled on 110grs of regular H-4831 in the 470.

465H&H