If I shorten my bolt guns to 13.5 LOP, what should I expect to be the correct LOP on a double rifle such as the Chapuis Ugex in 9.3?
Is there some average correlation? Every DR I have shouldered is too long. My DR will be scoped as are the bolt guns, if that makes a difference.

I am not an expert, but, if you subscribe to the theory that you should be able to cycle the bolt of a bolt gun while it is still shouldered, then that really determines the LOP. By this criteria, most of my bolt guns except my Ruger 257R have an LOP that is too long!
For the double, I think you willl find that the scope on a double sits "further back" than the scope on a bolt gun, in part due to the action itself, and in part because you tend to have lower power scopes with longer eye relief. As I recollect I did have the LOP on my Owen double shortened to about 13 3/4.
Doubles are also supposed to be quicker handling ie. quicker to shouler and quicker to pick up the sights and the target.
Not sure I have helped much, Peter.

It depends on what you are doing. I am reading a book on gun fitting now, a very interesting read.

Too short, A hard kicker will wack you with the scope, drive the trigger guard into your middle finger, or drive your thumb into your nose. You should have at least two fingers between your nose and thumb, and a little more on a very hard kicker. Too long of a stock will be slow to mount. With your winter wear, it should be short enough to come up fast and smooth, but long enough so you are not beat up. 3 men all six foot tall, depending on their build could require 3 different LOP .Trial and error is the key. Take your hardest kicking Double barreled shotgun with mag loads or slugs. Put on your hunting gear at 15 yard do some quick shooting. Does the stock hang up, does it wack your nose or middle finger, does it come up smooth or hang up. If it is not too long to start with, I would take a flipflop, cut out a rough recoil pad stick on with double side carpet tape, see if you can add a 1/2". Trail and error is the key. Once you have LOP right. then there is drop and cast to worry about,not to mention pitch.
The right LOP makes for a smooth handling softer kicking rifle. The drop, pitch, cast helps make the rifle shoot were you look.

They all interact to give you that just right feel, and deadly speed and accuracy.

JD

Its amazing we can hit anything.

JD

I've never really understand this mystery of LOP. After 50+ years of building and shooting all kinds of firearms I still have the same LOP on everything I own be it bolt,double,rifle or shotgun or single shot.ONLY dimension I change is comb height basically if it is for irons or scope. Over the years I've made the cast off a little more as I got fatter, but my arms are the same length and my neck is the same length no matter what I'm shooting. I rarely make allowance for clothing as I have never hunted in the FAR north where you have to bundle up very much. Rarely change pitch as the shape of my shoulder has only gotten a little fatter over the years but has not changed shape. Of far more concern to me is diameter of the pistol grip and shape and width of forearm and how open the pistol grip is.

On a straight-hand stock my dimension for LOP is 15". For a pistol-grip stock it is 14 3/4. Seems stock shape does play into the measurments.


Dutch

I am in a different camp than Zimbabwe.

Bolt rifles should have one LOP and all shotguns and DR's should have a different one, imo.

Bolt rifles are primarily for set piece, static shooting while shotguns and DR's are primarily for dynamic, fluid shooting. Bolt rilfes need shorter stocks, DR'd and shotguns need longer stocks.

For me the difference is 3/8th of an inch. I don't mind a soft rubber pad on a bolt rifle, but I want a harder, frictionless pad on shotguns and DR's.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
On a straight-hand stock my dimension for LOP is 15". For a pistol-grip stock it is 14 3/4. Seems stock shape does play into the measurments.


Dutch

I find this to be true for relatively tighter radius PG stocks, less so for very open PG's, which is what I prefer - maybe because of the difference.

JPK

I see a large % of shooters developing an “anchor point†(to borrow a bowhunting phrase) relative to the position of their hand and face. Unknowingly (or knowingly) they will make adjustments in their shoulder rotation to ensure that their hand and face are in the same place each time regardless of the LOP.

Without a consistent mount it’s hard to say what your LOP should be. This type of shooter you can hand a rifle to with a 14†LOP and you’ll see 1.5†between their face and hand. Hand the same shooter a gun with a 15†LOP and you’ll find the same 1.5†between their hand and face because they have rotated their shoulder back to achieve the same distance between their hand and face.

It’s important for a shooter to have a consistent mount for fitting a stock. Without that you end up chasing their adjustments or accommodation of the stock they have in hand.

As a rule of thumb, you need enough distance between your thumb and face to keep from getting whacked in the nose, and you need the stock short enough not to catch on your shoulder during the mount.

I had a Chapuis Brousse 470 that was entirely too short for me. It was more painful to shoot it than it was to shoot my 458 Lott that weighs 9 pounds.

I'm 6'2"-6'3" and have long chimp arms, so I usually need at least 15 inches of LOP (needless to say almost all of my rifle have spacers on them). I've also been banged in the face while shooting a 300 weatherby that was way too short... not fun.

I think it boils down to the type of gun, your various body dimensions, and your preference. Good luck.

What New guy mentioned above is true with reference to auto correct that most folk do if they shoot quite a bit. The bolt rifle and the shotgun or double rifle are quite different as JPK mentioned correctly. FYI, I am a little over six ft. tall with monkey arms weighing in at 180 lbs, my bolt rifles are 14.25 and my shotguns and DR's are a little over 15 inches.

quote:

As a rule of thumb, you need enough distance between your thumb and face to keep from getting whacked in the nose, and you need the stock short enough not to catch on your shoulder during the mount.

Damn, the whole thing summed up in two sentences! Having said that, however, I am not convinced that this criteria alone would be sufficient to cycle the bolt while the gun is still shouldered. Bolt configuration comes into play here as I just checked the LOP of my Blaser R93 (which I can cycle from the shoulder) and it is 13 7/8, much longer than I would have guessed. One of my my doubles is the same LOP!
Go figure!
Peter.

FWIW for this 6'1" 270# long armed oranagtang body guy on the 2 "custom" fit measured stock on dr's that I bought was not an improvement for me they were to long for me when they came in and were not worth the hefty charge in the end. I have found on double rifles the factory length on the heyms and kriegs have always fitted right with the thinner black pads that they come with and found the more fluid my shouldering - aiming - shooting moition was the better the handling and recoil. The Chapuis 9.3 being a lighter faster gun I liked it a little short and dont think they even need much of a pad. The 9.3 LOP would be shorter than my big bore DRs more like my middle wieght bolt guns. LOL i guess this means all of my guns are a little different.