Ive hit a bit of an issue loading My 450 NE

Regulation load 96 grns IMR 4831 under 480 grn soft.
The first time I took this load out it shot one raged hole at 50 yards.

The second time it shot the left barrel slightly to the left of the bull dead centre, but the right barrel was shooting 4" low and 5" to the left of centre (crossing.

This could have been me as it was snowing (lose focus) and I am still perfecting my hold but it was way off.

One thing I noticed was about a 1/6 of air space under the bullet, could this lead to inconsistency?

Does anyone use fillers with this load?

I don't use any fillers and I load for the same caliber and use IMR 4831. Interesting as your regulation load is about 4 grains higher than mine.

Did you happen to get a new lot of powder? Crossing usually means the bullet is going to fast.

Nope same powder lot, got the load data with the rifle.

Im going to chrono the loads tomorrow, hopefully.

I use IMR4831 when I load for my 450/400,I find this powder pretty temperature sensitive,my groups open up as the temp goes down,where as, I do not notice this as much with H4831.

Gents:
In my shooting of doubles, my problem is shooter error. The rifle(s) are consistent and accurate as is my charge of powder. One good target and the other is not so good leads me to believe I am at fault.
Drink a Coke before I shoot or think of Lady GaGa or Janet Reno during shooting (both are hot) and my targets will suffer.
Cal

Bill thanks, it was -2c that day.

Thanks Cal, sometimes maybe one should not over think.

Cal:
You be one sick puppy...Janet Reno? As in "I took a big Janet Reno this morning after breakfast"? Now, if you had said "Nancy Pelosi" then I would agree, one hot momma!

Dutch

Here's a thought that will make you boys gag; somewhere there is a Mr. Pelosi...

Meat curtains.
Naugahyde meat curtains.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
In my shooting of doubles, my problem is shooter error. The rifle(s) are consistent and accurate as is my charge of powder. One good target and the other is not so good leads me to believe I am at fault.
Drink a Coke before I shoot or think of Lady GaGa or Janet Reno during shooting (both are hot) and my targets will suffer.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by BayouBob:
Here's a thought that will make you boys gag; somewhere there is a Mr. Pelosi...

Oh you are mean..

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
I use IMR4831 when I load for my 450/400,I find this powder pretty temperature sensitive,my groups open up as the temp goes down,where as, I do not notice this as much with H4831.

+1
I have noticed the same thing with my 450/400 and my 470NE. Groups open up considerably if the ammo is cold.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
I use IMR4831 when I load for my 450/400,I find this powder pretty temperature sensitive,my groups open up as the temp goes down,where as, I do not notice this as much with H4831.

I doubt temperature has any effect on group size.You probably have too much copper fouling in your bores-the bad type of copper fouling.

OP

I have had good results with 80%> load density.
I use magnum primers.
I doubt your load is at fault.
When I get bad or inconsistent results I usually chalk it up to bad shooting for whatever reason.

Nitro

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
I use IMR4831 when I load for my 450/400,I find this powder pretty temperature sensitive,my groups open up as the temp goes down,where as, I do not notice this as much with H4831.

I doubt temperature has any effect on group size.You probably have too much copper fouling in your bores-the bad type of copper fouling.

In my case,there was no copper fouling at all. I always remove every trace of copper fouling after shooting my doubles. When this phenomenon first happened to me, I discussed it with Butch Searcy. Butch told me having cold ammo - in my case stored in a detached garage in the winter with temps down to 10 deg F - affects the burn rate of IMR 4831. Hence, the velocities I was getting were lower than those for which he regulated the rifles. I have played around with this a few times, and every time I shoot cold ammo in my doubles, my groups spread out.

Severe copper fouling is very hard to remove.I dont know how you check to see if it is all gone.You will never get it out without JB-patch and brush to start off with.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Severe copper fouling is very hard to remove.I dont know how you check to see if it is all gone.You will never get it out without JB-patch and brush to start off with.

Well, I disagree. I use Break Free Bore Cleaning Foam (BCF), and while the process may take several applications over a few hours, it gets every speck of copper out of my bores. I check my bores with a high intensity flashlight and a borescope to ensure all the copper is out. I used JB paste years ago, but I think there are now much better products on the market for removing copper. BCF is my favorite with Wipe Out / Patch out being second.

I tried wipe-out-several applications of it and it did not get the copper out.This could be however because of the coating of light oil I think I forgot to remove prior to applying.The second time I used it I made sure there was no oil and it worked but copper fouling was very light prior.I find it strange however that you are instructed to not remove the copper and all the so called experts here are also saying this and you chose to remove it before shooting.In any case my testing showed that the crossing and larger groups was caused by copper fouling since temperature was the same during both days.Very cold temperatures cold have an effect on POI but I think this could be caused by the lack of natural lubrification in the barrel steel and bullet but that would be in extremely cold temperatures not those you would see in your area.The way a diesel engine or any other engine has problems starting on extremely cold temps.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
I use IMR4831 when I load for my 450/400,I find this powder pretty temperature sensitive,my groups open up as the temp goes down,where as, I do not notice this as much with H4831.

+1
I have noticed the same thing with my 450/400 and my 470NE. Groups open up considerably if the ammo is cold.

I guess I'm going to have to come up with a different powder (load) for hunting up here

quote:

Originally posted by Double BC:

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
I use IMR4831 when I load for my 450/400,I find this powder pretty temperature sensitive,my groups open up as the temp goes down,where as, I do not notice this as much with H4831.

+1
I have noticed the same thing with my 450/400 and my 470NE. Groups open up considerably if the ammo is cold.

I guess I'm going to have to come up with a different powder (load) for hunting up here

Hornady loads their 450/400 ammo with H4831sc,I have shot this ammo & some handloads with H4831sc in cooler weather,this powder was much more consistent than I4831,I did not see my groups change by much,this powder is not as sensitive to temperatures.

Here is a discussion on IMR4831 and temp sensitivity.
IMR4831

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Here is a discussion on IMR4831 and temp sensitivity.
IMR4831

Thanks George

Went to the range today, put my re loads on the dash to get warmed by the defrost.

Temp -1c (bullets kept warm near my body)
480 grn Woodleigh
96 grn IMR 4831
50 yards
6 o'clock hold

I noticed shooting my light loads at the end of the range session that I have a tendency to cant the rile, im going to work on it.

That is some good shooting and shows that your rifle is ready and in super operating order.If it was me I would clean it and put it aside for Africa.I would practice with other less recoiling rifles in the mean time shoot big bore bolt action from time to time-offhand.

I found a great way to get all the copper fouling out of my rifle barrel. I have a cleaning rod I chuck in my cordless drill. With good stainless brush I can get all the fouling out is about ten minuets running full speed. If it is being stubborn I wrap 00 steel wool around the brush. Works every time.
Bill