Thinking hard on one of these for use in the thick forests here in Western Oregon. Just have a few questions:

1. Can the recoil pad be replaced without re-regulating? I can't stand ventilated pads.

2. Are the chambers polished enough that you can turn give the gun a flip like an extractor-equipped shotgun and have the shells slide out?

3. Any provision for mounting a scope? Would the rear sight dovetail be large enough to mount a small reflex sight such as a Trijicon or Burris?

4. Has anyone tried 400gr bullets at 1300fps or thereabouts in the rifle? I know they are regulated for the 300gr Winchester load but for woods work I prefer a 400gr cast bullet at a sedate pace.

5. How stiff are these rifles? Do they smooth up with use?

I have the 9.3 so I can't answer load questions.
1. Yes, you can change the pad.
2. Shells will slide out.
3. Comes with a base mount.
4. N/A
5. Still a little stiff (60 rounds) but seems like it is starting to get a bit easier.

I like it well enough that I think I will buy another in 450/400. Hope this helps.

Oregon45:
You would the classiest guy in Oregon if you hunt coast or high Cascade "pecker pole" elk with a .45-70 double. GOOD FOR YOU! DO IT! Just hope I run into you in the woods some day. I might even have one too.
Bill

I have one of the Sabatti .45-70 double rifles. Triggers are excelent, fit and finish excellent. Easy to carry. They are a bit tight at first. Have been using 405 grain lead bullets; no problem with accuracy. Took it to S. Africa on a recent plains game hunt in Limpopo Province. Let my PH carry it. He loved it..and shot (targets) well. Never had to use it in any situation. PH liked how the front sight showed up in the brush. Gun rated at 2200 bar (~31,900 psi). There are a lot of good loads with P<30,00 psi. Glad I bought the rifle...it's a big hit at our weekly shooting group. Also have a Merkel 140 DR in .375 H&H...another sweet gun.

Eagle One

Benefactor Member NRA
Life Member SCI
DR fan
Life Member SAF

quote:

Gun rated at 2200 bar (~31,900 psi).

Most excellent. A guy that knows what a bar is!!

Bill/Oregon: We might run into one another, I hunt Elk outside of Prospect each year I don't draw a tag somewhere else in the state.

Eagle One: Thanks for the info! There are quite a few good 45-70 loads below that pressure level and, truth be known, once I find a load that regulates with 405 lead bullets I'll be done. I have 3500 405gr Oregon Trail cast bullets sitting in the garage

Follow-up to Will's and Oregon45's comments.

1. Re bars...it helps to have taught thermodynamics in the past. One bar is 14.5-14.7 psi.

2. Recommend that everyone with a .45-70 of any kind read all of the information on the Montana Cast Bullets web site. It's a wealth of good information. Some of the items covered include BH, gas checks, alloys, and further refrences. I'm sure some of us are also into BP cartridge silhouette shooting...info also is value in this discipline.

3. Accurate has a good list of cast bullet loads encompassing a sperctrum of weights, all of which are less than 28,000 psi.

4. Converting CUP to psi. Good article can be found on the web by Googling "Converting CUP to psi." The author certainly understands statistics and linear regression analysis. I ran his data using the statistical package of the current version of MS Excel...he is spot on. The relationship is psi = 1.516CUP - 17,902. This is very useful.

Goie aand!

Eagle One

Benefactor Member NRA
Life Member SCI
DRSS
Life Member SAF

quote:

Originally posted by Eagle One:
Follow-up to Will's and Oregon45's comments.

1. Re bars...it helps to have taught thermodynamics in the past. One bar is 14.5-14.7 psi.

2. Recommend that everyone with a .45-70 of any kind read all of the information on the Montana Cast Bullets web site. It's a wealth of good information. Some of the items covered include BH, gas checks, alloys, and further refrences. I'm sure some of us are also into BP cartridge silhouette shooting...info also is value in this discipline.

3. Accurate has a good list of cast bullet loads encompassing a sperctrum of weights, all of which are less than 28,000 psi.

4. Converting CUP to psi. Good article can be found on the web by Googling "Converting CUP to psi." The author certainly understands statistics and linear regression analysis. I ran his data using the statistical package of the current version of MS Excel...he is spot on. The relationship is psi = 1.516CUP - 17,902. This is very useful.

Goie aand!

Eagle One

Benefactor Member NRA
Life Member SCI
DRSS
Life Member SAF

Ooh, just a bit of a nitpicking from a fellow thermo teacher: 1 bar=100 kPa

100 kPa (14.7 psi/101.325 kPa)= 14.5 psi

Also, I have a different correlation for CUP to peizo psi, at least approximately. I think your correlation is for "high" pressure cartridges but for low pressure nitro stuff it is a simple multiplier, about 1.12.

Excellent, Will !!!

Where have you taught? Not many of us around who enjoy thermo. Cengel and Boles is the best text, ever, in my opinion. Also, Cengel for heat transfer.

Regards,

Eagle One

You should have corrected me, standard atmospheric pressure is really 14.696 but we'll let it go!

I have been retired too long to remember text authors. I finally had to come to the realization that all the text books and my class notes would eventually go in the dumpster so I beat my kids to it. Too bad really.

I don't know if this has gone down the tubes like the other Sabatti "Bespoke" thread, but it's good to know smart guys are out there...

Is the key to regulating a heavier bullet load finding one that matches the chamber pressure of the regulation load? I've read about the "75% Rule" for regulating loads with bullets lighter than that which the gun was regulated for, but is there a reverse method for regulating with heavier loads?

In reply to Oregon45's inquiry:

Let's treat this as a pure classical mechanics trajectory problem wherein the trajectory is a parabola. I took various less than 30K psi loads from the Accurate Powders manual and ran some calculations for a projectile over a level surface. Muzzle elevation was 1-degree. Temperature, relative humidity, acleration due to gravity, and air density were assumed constant at STP. Results are as follows:

Proj Wt Initial Velocity (ft/s) Max Ht Above Plane (ft) Max Distance Travelled (ft)
Jacketed Projectiles
300 1874 16.6 3809
350 1636 13.3 3407
400 1610 12.3 2812

Lead Bullets
405 1817 15.6 3581
420 1763 14.7 3371
440 1652 12.9 2960
460 1636 12.7 2903
500 1510 10.8 2473

Without belaboring the mathematics, in general, the trajectory and distance travelled is a function of velocity. Compare the 405 grain lead bullet to the 300 grain jacketed bullet with which the Sabatti was regulated. Max trajectory height and distance traveled are not that far apart. Now, at a distance of 50 yards the groups off the bench ought to be close. Aerodynamic characteristics of the bullet will have som effect, e.g., pointed vs flat nose. By staying withing the pressure limits of the rifle and a bit of load development, you ought to be "spot on!" With my current 405 grain loads I'm close enough I don't intend to vary anything by more than 0.5 garin.

Hope this helps.

Eagle One

Benefactor Member NRA
Life Member SCI
DRSS
Life Member SASS
Life Member SAF

G'day Eagle One,
I have recently taken delivery of a Classic Safari in 45-70 and wish to use the 405gr cast projectiles as I do in my Marlin lever gun. Would you be so kind to provide me with your load data that you are using as I plan to use it as a starting point and fine tune from there. Any info would be much appreciated.
Regards
Jerry

The latest issue of GUNS has a review of the SABATTI .45-70. It apparently was one of the early guns, not a Cabela's model. He liked it a lot.

Thanks LionHunter,
I'll have a look and see if I can purchase this magazine in Australia or view online. Did the reviewer mention reloads at all?
Thanks
Jerry

Was in Cabelas (Buda) yesterday and they had the same gun that was in the Guns article. Looked like the larger bore guns but was a 45-70. They run a grand more than the case colored ones.

This sounds like the model that I have, single trigger, ejectors etc. and can honestly say that the wood to metal fit is very neat, trigger pull is about 4-5 pounds with only a small amount of creep, weight should be fine. The LOP is spot on for me at 5'10" and it comes to the shoulder very nicely indeed. It is still a bit tight in the action but suspect will free up with use. As for the sights I will know once I have had a play.I am hoping to see more of these in Australia. Do you know if the Guns magazine is online as I have phoned around to find it with no luck.
Regards
Jerry

Try:

http://gunsmagazine.com

The January 2011 issue of GUNS is on-line. Click on Digital Edition: Read Jan. Issue Now
__________

Also, the November 2010 issue of GUN TESTS reviewed the Sabatti 450-400 NE DR.

http://www.gun-tests.com

Click on Archives, then November 2010

Hope this helps.

Here's a link which takes you directly to the Jan. issue, the article is on page 50. http://fmgpublications.ipaperu...tions/GUNS/GUNS0111/

Article is by Roy Huntington who is my editor at American Handgunner and editorial director of FMG publications. Although Roy is more a handgun enthusiast he is knowledgeable about rifles and can really shoot. Takes good photos too, there are some really nice ones of the rifle in the article.

My wife and I accompanied Roy and Suzi on the second African hunt he mentions. As it was Suzi's first trip she did most of the shooting (and did so very well). The outfitters at Gras Ranch wanted a few springbok culled for for the table. Roy borrowed my Mk. V .257 Weatherby and killed one at a bit over 400 yards.

I've been exchanging emails with Roy about the Sabatti and he is as enthusiastic about the rifle in personal correspondence as he is in the article. I may try to borrow one if I can decide on a cartridge. Nothing against the .45-70 but Roy has it already covered.

Thanks for the link. Cabela's says my 9.3 has arrive in country and will be in Texas before Christmas. Yipee!

Thanks for the links fellas, much appreciated.
Regards
Jerry

Dave,
Thanks for the link to the article. I enjoyed it.

G'day All,
I am happy to report that I got to testing on the weekend and fed mine the factory load, which was spot on and also a variety of reloads and have now found loads with both the jacketed 300gr (1.5inch group) and cast 405gr (3inch group), all shot offhand, that regulate well in my gun . I also loaded up a reduced load which shot spot on at 25 metres. All up fired approx 50 rounds and truly enjoyed myself.
Regards
Jerry

Yep,, You're hooked like a fish! What's your next one going to be?
Now add DRSS to your signature line.

G'day Mike,
I am definitley hooked and will begin to look for another in a smaller calibre, a 7X57 would be nice and very usuable for what I hunt.
Regards
Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Oz:
G'day Mike,
I am definitley hooked and will begin to look for another in a smaller calibre, a 7X57 would be nice and very usuable for what I hunt.
Regards
Jerry

7 x 65R is a great DR calibre, better than 7x57,

Not sure if they make it though.

.

I agree, as for availability I'm sure some of the Euro's would chamber this round. I will keep my eyes out.
Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Oz:
G'day Mike,
I am definitley hooked and will begin to look for another in a smaller calibre, a 7X57 would be nice and very usuable for what I hunt.
Regards
Jerry

7 x 65R is a great DR calibre, better than 7x57,

Not sure if they make it though.

.

I've got a Merkel 140E in 7x65R, a great shooter and a good looking gun in great shape that I may be willing to sell. I'm DR poor right now. If you're interested PM me, and we'll get together on it. Mike