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Alex Henry
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Just bought a .450 BPE Alex Henry with great wood and engraving. Interested in seeing how she shoots. I have been without a DR for a while. I think I’ll like this one.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Great woods hunting rifle. Whitetails with a patched leas BP bullet....awesome! :-)
 
Posts: 20173 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Just got off the phone with you. Let's see some pics!! Talk aobut leading a horse to water but not letting him drink!
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
Just got off the phone with you. Let's see some pics!! Talk aobut leading a horse to water but not letting him drink!
Cal


Pictures are coming. Targets as well. Thanks for your input Cal. You’re the best person when it comes to these old rifles. I have a ton of experience with newer double rifles, but you’re the expert on these old doubles. I just hope it shoots. If not, I’m selling it to you.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
Just got off the phone with you. Let's see some pics!! Talk aobut leading a horse to water but not letting him drink!
Cal



To see pictures of this rifle, go on Gunsinternational and search for GI# 101076436. I paid $3500 for it a couple days ago. Haven’t shot it yet. Cal, interested to see what you think. The barrels need to be refinished, but they lock tight, ring true, and the rifling is perfect. Slight amount of throat erosion, but nothing to worry about. Great wood and classy engraving. Non-rebounding hammers, but that doesn’t bother me.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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If it is tight and the bores are as good as you say, no doubt it will shoot.
Good buy even with its little issues.
You will have a ball with this one with black powder or NfB loads.
 
Posts: 3383 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
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If it is the one in that advert that showed “reduced” to $6500 and you got it for $3500 I think you did well. Especially for a “shooter”.
Looks like it just needs that hideous shiny stock finish removed and you are good to go.
For the price I think you can overlook the exterior barrel pitting at the muzzle.

BTW:
For damascus barrel browning/restoration consider Steve Betrtram
http://www.bertramandco.com
(He can restore your stock & forend finish as well.....)

Steve has brought my Alexander Henry DR damascus brown back to life and suitable to a period 1877 rifle.
- Mike

EDIT:
Just looked it up in the Donald Dallas book;
Completed on 28Sep1872, interestingly enough the book shows the records as “.500/.450” so you may have a .500/.450 No.1 Express 2-3/4”

If it really still is a .500/.450 #1 it is a little more effort to source brass and dies (Buffalo Arms has Bertram Brass) but is a very nice cartridge equivalent to the .450 3-1/4” BPE.
The very early rifles chambers in that calibre were cut for the coiled brass cases which were much thicker than our drawn brass as we know them. You will get a lot of neck expansion so annealing brass is essential.
 
Posts: 296 | Location: Colorado, USA | Registered: 13 April 2017Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Redstone:
If it is the one in that advert that showed “reduced” to $6500 and you got it for $3500 I think you did well. Especially for a “shooter”.
Looks like it just needs that hideous shiny stock finish removed and you are good to go.
For the price I think you can overlook the exterior barrel pitting at the muzzle.

BTW:
For damascus barrel browning/restoration consider Steve Betrtram
http://www.bertramandco.com
(He can restore your stock & forend finish as well.....)

Steve has brought my Alexander Henry DR damascus brown back to life and suitable to a period 1880 rifle.
- Mike


Thanks for the recommendation. I’m going to shoot her first and see just how sexy she is for $3500. I think I stole it.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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See my above edited post re: .500/.450 #1 2-3/4”
- Mike
 
Posts: 296 | Location: Colorado, USA | Registered: 13 April 2017Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Redstone:
If it is the one in that advert that showed “reduced” to $6500 and you got it for $3500 I think you did well. Especially for a “shooter”.
Looks like it just needs that hideous shiny stock finish removed and you are good to go.
For the price I think you can overlook the exterior barrel pitting at the muzzle.

BTW:
For damascus barrel browning/restoration consider Steve Betrtram
http://www.bertramandco.com
(He can restore your stock & forend finish as well.....)

Steve has brought my Alexander Henry DR damascus brown back to life and suitable to a period 1877 rifle.
- Mike

EDIT:
Just looked it up in the Donald Dallas book;
Completed on 28Sep1872, interestingly enough the book shows the records as “.500/.450” so you may have a .500/.450 No.1 Express 2-3/4”

If it really still is a .500/.450 #1 it is a little more effort to source brass and dies (Buffalo Arms has Bertram Brass) but is a very nice cartridge equivalent to the .450 3-1/4” BPE.
The very early rifles chambers in that calibre were cut for the coiled brass cases which were much thicker than our drawn brass as we know them. You will get a lot of neck expansion so annealing brass is essential.



Red stone, can you give me a call tomorrow. I think you’re right on the caliber as the the .450 BPE fits in the chamber but may be a little sloppy. I probably need to get it checked before firing. Michael Stewart 423-208-7065


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by mdstewart:]

Redstone, can you give me a call tomorrow. I think you’re right on the caliber as the the .450 BPE fits in the chamber but may be a little sloppy. I probably need to get it checked before firing. Michael Stewart 423-208-7065

Sure, what time tomorrow is good, I’m on Rocky Mountain Time.
Oh, if it is the .500/.450 #1 Express the .450 3-1/4” will be a lot sloppy at the case head/rim.
Are you set up to do a chamber cast? A vernier caliper? ......tho really you probably will not need to do a chamber cast right away if at all.

- Mike
 
Posts: 296 | Location: Colorado, USA | Registered: 13 April 2017Reply With Quote
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Nice rifle.
Do as Redstone says and get rid of the shiny finish on the stock. A nice hand oil finish is proper. You did well.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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I wonder if it will shoot powder coated bullets well.

Nice rifle with great wood.

Just remove the shiny (looks like Truoil) finish and apply 50% diluted Danish oil sanded in with 600 grit paper.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 11396 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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This thread us useless without PICTURES!

faint
 
Posts: 8531 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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Red stone, call me any time today. Thx


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Agree.
The base diameters of the two are vastly different and I doubt that a 3-1/4” would even come close to completely entering a No1 or No2 chamber because the case mouth would literally need to be down the bore.
Looking forward to your report.
 
Posts: 3383 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
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Ordered dies and Brass today. After shipping for 3 boxes of Bertram brass and the Die Set, I’m out just less than $800.

I hope this gun will be worth it. Now for Bullets. Looking for some .458’s in .325gr if anyone has a deal on some. Thx.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Did you get a chamber cast or some way to decide what the cartridge really is?
That and your barrel groove diameter just ahead of the case......Henry barrels were a tapered bore.
Good luck & have fun.
- Mike
 
Posts: 296 | Location: Colorado, USA | Registered: 13 April 2017Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Redstone:
Did you get a chamber cast or some way to decide what the cartridge really is?
That and your barrel groove diameter just ahead of the case......Henry barrels were a tapered bore.
Good luck & have fun.
- Mike



I did get a chamber cast and it’s definitely 500/450 BPE. The brass from Bertram’s is listed as magnum but it’s still 3.24”. At the muzzle it measures .461, so the .458’s should be perfect, don’t you think?


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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[/QUOTE]
I did get a chamber cast and it’s definitely 500/450 BPE. The brass from Bertram’s is listed as magnum but it’s still 3.24”. At the muzzle it measures .461, so the .458’s should be perfect, don’t you think?
[/QUOTE]

So you have the .450 #1 Express 2-3/4”, Bertram DOES make a proper .500/450 #1 2-3/4” Express case.

In addition to the case length difference the two .500/450’s are not exactly the same. The .500/.450 Magnum 3-1/4” BPE is a “thin rim” case .040” thickness while the #1 Express is a .060” thick rim.
That said you can actually headspace the thin rim .500 Nitro basic head size brass on the shoulder once they are properly fireformed.
Less expensive alternative to Bertram brass (and case forming/trimming either way) would be .470 Nitro cases.
.461 at the muzzle means even bigger at the breech end remember Henry barrels were taper bore. Plus, Henry barrels were odd number groove rifling so measurements arent exact.
.458” bullets ought to work, maybe not really accurate, I would limit use to only cast lead or paper patch bullets in that old barrel to mitigate possible excess wear.
- Mike
 
Posts: 296 | Location: Colorado, USA | Registered: 13 April 2017Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Redstone:

I did get a chamber cast and it’s definitely 500/450 BPE. The brass from Bertram’s is listed as magnum but it’s still 3.24”. At the muzzle it measures .461, so the .458’s should be perfect, don’t you think?
[/QUOTE]

So you have the .450 #1 Express 2-3/4”, Bertram DOES make a proper .500/450 #1 2-3/4” Express case.

In addition to the case length difference the two .500/450’s are not exactly the same. The .500/.450 Magnum 3-1/4” BPE is a “thin rim” case .040” thickness while the #1 Express is a .060” thick rim.
That said you can actually headspace the thin rim .500 Nitro basic head size brass on the shoulder once they are properly fireformed.
Less expensive alternative to Bertram brass (and case forming/trimming either way) would be .470 Nitro cases.
.461 at the muzzle means even bigger at the breech end remember Henry barrels were taper bore. Plus, Henry barrels were odd number groove rifling so measurements arent exact.
.458” bullets ought to work, maybe not really accurate, I would limit use to only cast lead or paper patch bullets in that old barrel to mitigate possible excess wear.
- Mike[/QUOTE]

I need the 500/450 3.25” , it is not the #1 Express. The brass I ordered from Bertram in the 500/450 3.25” and have it listed as Magnum. Thanks for your input.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Interesting, so somewhere in its life it has had the chambers lengthened (rechambered) to .500/.450 3-1/4” from the original .450 #1 Express 2-3/4”

The rim seat for the thicker rim tells the tale........it cannot have been originally a .500/.450 Magnum 3-1/4”

That would explain how the .450 straight dropped right in.
 
Posts: 296 | Location: Colorado, USA | Registered: 13 April 2017Reply With Quote
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Your rifle was put in the ledger on September 28, 1872
Interestingly, it is listed specifically as a 500/450 while other 450s in that serial number range are listed simply as 450s. The 450 straight 3-1/4” was the primary 450 chambering for A. Henry.
That is very unusual because the 500/450 three and a quarter bpe was an H&H development that came about much later than 1872.
What year, I haven’t been able to pin down, but many sources say that H&H used the Westley designed 500/450 before developing their own.
As Mike suggests, get a good measurement of your rim recess and that will give you a good idea if it originally used one or the other.

I think I have some grease groove or patched .458” bullets around that weight I can send to you.
Will take a look.
 
Posts: 3383 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
Your rifle was put in the ledger on September 28, 1872
Interestingly, it is listed specifically as a 500/450 while other 450s in that serial number range are listed simply as 450s. The 450 straight 3-1/4” was the primary 450 chambering for A. Henry.
That is very unusual because the 500/450 three and a quarter bpe was an H&H development that came about much later than 1872.
What year, I haven’t been able to pin down, but many sources say that H&H used the Westley designed 500/450 before developing their own.
As Mike suggests, get a good measurement of your rim recess and that will give you a good idea if it originally used one or the other.

I think I have some grease groove or patched .458” bullets around that weight I can send to you.
Will take a look.



Thanks Huvius. We did a chamber cast a few days ago, and unless it is some mysterious chambering, it can be nothing other than the 500/450 3.25”. The .450 BPE 3.25” rounds that I have fit in perfectly except being loose at the rim. The casting shows it definitely starts as a 500 then bottlenecks to a 450 with muzzle micro-ing at .461. I have re-checked the chamber length no less than 4 times and each time it measured out at 3.25.

According to cartridges of the world, the only other chambering it could be would be in the Nitro express chambers, and built in 1872, we know it’s not NE. I have researched the 500/450 No1 Express, but the bottleneck on it is much too short.

PM me your cell and I can text you a picture of the cast.

Thanks
Michael


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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The 500/450 Nitro Express used a case dimensionally the same as the 500/450 3-1/4” black powder express just as the 450 3-1/4”, 500 3” and 450/400 3-1/4” in nitro forms are dimensionally the same as their black powder era predecessors.




 
Posts: 3383 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
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I’ll have the brass by Monday hopefully and some bullets from Huvius. Well see how things match up with the brass on Monday and go from there.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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So, I got to shoot this DR yesterday. Using loading recommendations from Mike W, it shoots great with about a 4” spread between the barrels. We’re going to play with the powder charge a bit to try to narrow up the prints. The barrels themselves are printing great. It’s a great shooting gun from 1872, and the recoil is nothing. Shooting a 350gr Hornady Interlock, it’s just a piece of cake to shoot.

Many thanks to Cal Pappas and Mike Warren for their help with getting this DR shooting.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Before upping velocity to bring your groups together, try the 300gr Hornadys.
There is a limit as to how much you want to keep loading up and in an old rifle such as this one, I would opt to try a lighter bullet first.
 
Posts: 3383 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
Before upping velocity to bring your groups together, try the 300gr Hornadys.
There is a limit as to how much you want to keep loading up and in an old rifle such as this one, I would opt to try a lighter bullet first.

Very sage advise and the voice of experience.
- Mike
 
Posts: 296 | Location: Colorado, USA | Registered: 13 April 2017Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
Before upping velocity to bring your groups together, try the 300gr Hornadys.
There is a limit as to how much you want to keep loading up and in an old rifle such as this one, I would opt to try a lighter bullet first.


Really good advise. I’ll try some of the bullets you sent me as well. Thanks for those by the way.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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I hope they work for you.
Let us know.
You will likely need to flare the case mouth a bit more for the PP bullets than you need to for the Hornadys.
There are some good tips here:
http://rbsiii.com/PaperPatchedBullets/index.html
 
Posts: 3383 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
I hope they work for you.
Let us know.
You will likely need to flare the case mouth a bit more for the PP bullets than you need to for the Hornadys.
There are some good tips here:
http://rbsiii.com/PaperPatchedBullets/index.html



It will be a couple days before I get them loaded and get. To shoot. I’ll let you know.

Thanks.


JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
 
Posts: 1857 | Location: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Some years ago I sold LB-404 who used to post here a Alex Henry 10.75x68, for a nice piece of change, wish I could buy it back for the same price, it was such a nice gun..He shot some Cape Buffalo with it as I did and I heard he sold it some time later..We gun nuts do some stupid things when the green starts floating around in big packages!! pissers


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 42210 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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