Does anyone know anything about this rifle? Is the price of $25k to $50K a bit light?

http://www.rockislandauction.c...item/aid/51/lid/3551

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Does anyone know anything about this rifle? Is the price of $25k to $50K a bit light?

Well it won't be "light" now that you have plastered it all over this forum.

.

As is always the case in any auction, the market will decide what the rifle is worth.

This is an interesting rifle, of all the known Jeffery 600s it is the only one with 28" barrels and prooved for the 120gr load. Looks like it may be in decent shape.

Right up my alley but am waiting on my "made to order" Verney-Carron 600NE.

Too cute. Original finish?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Too cute. Original finish?

The action looks right in terms of finish.

The big difference in the colour of the stock and
the fore end makes me wonder.

And that the stock seems to have no dents on it behind the action.

Recoil pad looks like it could have been fitted better.

I'd still buy it.

This is one of the early guns--made in 1902. 28in barrels with a 120grn cordite charge! Glad it weighs 16lbs!

Neat rifle!

Ed

Manufacturer: Jeffery W J & Co Ltd
Serial #: 12431
Gauge: 600 EX
Barrel Length: 28 inch solid rib
Finish: blue/casehardened
Grip: N/A Stock: walnut

Description: This is an excellent example of a 600 Nitro Express double rifle made by W.J. Jeffery & Co of London, England producers of high quality custom made shotguns and rifles that have been used by wealthy big game sportsmen for years. They produce guns under their own banner and also as contractors for other distributors. This massive rifle features a concaved matted rib with a ramp front sight, express sight on a quarter rib with one standing leaf, marked 50 and two folding leaves, marked 100, and 200. The top breech end of the right barrel is marked "W.J. JEFFERY & CO" and the left , "13 KING STREET ST. JAMES ST. LONDON". Each barrel under the forearm is marked "SPECIAL - GUN / BARREL - STEEL" and "FRIED KRUPP / -ESSEN-", and each is proofmarked. The barrel flats are marked with bullet grain information and with two crown over "GP" and "V" proofmarks. The barrels are equipped with a doll's head extension, ejectors and there is a eyelet type swivel stud mounted on the underside. The massive under lever box lock action is casehardened and features a simple circle design engraved border and "W.J. JEFFERY & Co" engraved in a banner on each side. Blue remaining parts, double triggers, tang mounted automatic safety, with "SAFE" in gold and mounted with a hand checkered walnut forearm and pistol grip stock with tear drop flats, steel casehardened grip cap, solid recoil pad, eyelet style swivel stud and silver initial oval inscribed "F.P.W. / 1952". Complete with a leather and oak case with brass corner protectors, leather handle and double straps. The outside of the lid has a previous owners name scratched into it and several airline stickers. The interior is lined with red velvet with a W.J. Jeffery's label affixed to the inside of he lid. Included are two boxes of 5 count Kynoch 600 Nitro Express cartridges (one full, one cartridge in the other), a funnel and two snap caps.

Condition: Excellent. The barrels retain 98% original blue finish with a few minor dings and scratches, and some minor wear on the breech end of the rib. The bottom action plate, trigger guard and break lever also retain 98% of the original blue with a few minor dings and scratches. The action retains 80% original case colors with areas fading to gray and brightest on the top. The wood is also excellent with a few minor dents and scratches, and sharp checkering. Markings are crisp and clear. The case is good with some wear and fraying of the leather. The lining shows wear and staining. Mechanically excellent.

I think the but stock was refinished with a lighter finish. The checkering is still dark like the fore end. The recoil pad "fit" looks poor IMO because the rifle has been standing in a cabinet for a while and the weight has squeezed out the pad. I am surprised that the description does not say anything about the bores.

I had the pleasure (??!!) of shooting a 600 NE Jeffery a couple of years ago & i have it on video which I posted here a while ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Too cute. Original finish?

Sorry Will it's to heavy for you and has one to many triggers. You'll have to let it go.

120gr load is pretty rare. Not likely to go for anything close the 25. 55-75k sounds more like it if everything is on the up and up.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
The big difference in the colour of the stock and the fore end makes me wonder. And that the stock seems to have no dents on it behind the action.

Agreed Nigel, the lack of dents behind the action and the color difference from these few photos don't seem to match well thus maybe a refinish or stock replacement sometime in the past.

OK, here's another one for everyone to comment on.

Have a look at the Lines per inch on the chequering.
It seems to be finer on the stock than on the foreend.

Also, the tear drops on the stock are very crisp - hardly look
to have any wear and they are one of the first things to wear IMHO.

For a gun made in 1902, ............


I'm not saying anything wrong with the gun, just commenting.

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Hi Gents:
I have a good deal of the history of this rifle and can supply what is needed to the new buyer. Jeffery MAY have made more 120-grain rifles as only 8 of the 70 made by Jeffery have the charge listed in the ledger (I have copies of all the pages of all the ledgers with .600s on them). This rifle sold about 10-12 years ago. By the way--Kynoch also loaded a 130-grain load on the responsibility of Jeffery!!

The 28" barrels will make it a bit muzzle heavy and in the past it was mentioned this rifle was refinished. It's rather plain but, hey, it's a Jeffery and an original .600. I have my eye on others that will come up for sale (private or auction) so I'll pass on this one.

I stopped following AR about two months ago as the pissing and moaning was a bit too much but had to post this when a friend told me of this thread and I wanted to offer my services to the new owner.

There are not that many original .600s out there. I think Brett is right on as to the value. We'll see.

Again, I have the ledger data, the original owner, a subsequent owner who published an article in the American Rifleman, and ballistic data for this rifle.
Cheers, all.
Cal

it will go very strong, especially given that it is an ejector gun.

JW

Cal

How far did the "refinish" go ?

Was it restocked or just re-finished ?

.

Cal probably knows for sure but the buttstock does not look original to me. Still a very nice piece and expertly done if it was replaced.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
Cal probably knows for sure but the buttstock does not look original to me. Still a very nice piece and expertly done if it was replaced.

I agree.

I only write up here exactly how I evaluate things I'm buying.
Originality to me if not that important as long as whatever has been
done has been done well / correctly / for the period.

Can't stand Pre WW2 guns with 1970 recoil pads on them etc.

.

Is there any chance that this is a Leonard built rifle and marketed by Jeffery?

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Hi Gents:
I have a good deal of the history of this rifle and can supply what is needed to the new buyer. Jeffery MAY have made more 120-grain rifles as only 8 of the 70 made by Jeffery have the charge listed in the ledger (I have copies of all the pages of all the ledgers with .600s on them). This rifle sold about 10-12 years ago. By the way--Kynoch also loaded a 130-grain load on the responsibility of Jeffery!!

The 28" barrels will make it a bit muzzle heavy and in the past it was mentioned this rifle was refinished. It's rather plain but, hey, it's a Jeffery and an original .600. I have my eye on others that will come up for sale (private or auction) so I'll pass on this one.

I stopped following AR about two months ago as the pissing and moaning was a bit too much but had to post this when a friend told me of this thread and I wanted to offer my services to the new owner.

There are not that many original .600s out there. I think Brett is right on as to the value. We'll see.

Again, I have the ledger data, the original owner, a subsequent owner who published an article in the American Rifleman, and ballistic data for this rifle.
Cheers, all.
Cal

Hi Cal,
Why not post the details? If its in the ledger its public information anyways. It would be most helpful for anyone planning on bidding to know upfront what has been done. I see no issue.

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:
Hi Cal,
Why not post the details? If its in the ledger its public information anyways. It would be most helpful for anyone planning on bidding to know upfront what has been done. I see no issue.

I'm not under the opinion that the knowledge is free FYI. Could be wrong.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Is there any chance that this is a Leonard built rifle and marketed by Jeffery?

Absolutely. Just depends on the year. Leonard made all (to my knowledge) the double rifles for Jefferies from 1900s to some time in the 1930s.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:
Hi Cal,
Why not post the details? If its in the ledger its public information anyways. It would be most helpful for anyone planning on bidding to know upfront what has been done. I see no issue.

I'm not under the opinion that the knowledge is free FYI. Could be wrong.

Brett

I have the early Jeffery ledgers as well (copies), but went to look at them today but can't find them. Will keep searching.

.

That is the danger of expressing an opinion, someone in the weeds may pop up and prove you wrong.

Maybe a bidding war for ledger info?

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Too cute. Original finish?

Sorry Will it's to heavy for you and has one to many triggers. You'll have to let it go.

HA! I couldn't afford the apparent non-period 70's recoil pad.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
That is the danger of expressing an opinion, someone in the weeds may pop up and prove you wrong.

Good, as that's how you learn.

.

One of the Leonard clues are 4 digit number on bottom rib. Usually barrels are Krupp.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Will:
That is the danger of expressing an opinion, someone in the weeds may pop up and prove you wrong.

Here's a couple of thoughts about this rifle. Why are the barrels not level with the standing breech? It doesn't have the half scroll cut at the back of the action that Leonard built rifles are known for. Maybe the ledger records would enlighten us.

Leonard was the supplier of most of the Completed rifles that Jeffery sold. Here is a typical Leonard serial number on the under rib.

Upon some investigation you will find that this Leonard serial number is stamped inside the action, on the forearm wood and stock as well. The rifles were made then delivered to Jeffery.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommyhawk:
Here's a couple of thoughts about this rifle. Why are the barrels not level with the standing breech?

Some guns were made like this. Have seen a few.
I did ask and was told once but have forgotten.

.

You can see there rifles were made by the same maker.
A W. J. Jeffery in 475 #2 Jeffery


And an A. Hollis and Son 450/400 3 inch.


Both are Leonard made rifles!

What other firms built the rifles for Jeffery to retail?

Gents:
Good day to you all. To reply to a few of your comments:
I don't know if the stock is a replacement or a refinish. 10-12 years ago I was under the understanding it was refinished.

The Jeffery records are absolutely not public records. They are privately held by a business man in the states. He was most kind to let me go through the records and photocopy what I needed for my research. I can share the info with individuals but I feel it would be a breech of trust to publish info here. I have been asked to send Jeffery owners photocopies if the records I have and I must politely decline. The current owner of the records is a VERY private individual. I did not meet him--I had to go through his secretary. After publication of my book on the .600 I sent him a complementary copy--again through his secretary. When he ordered more for friends the order was placed through his secretary and the books sent to her. It is cool to see his name in the Fortune 500 list of billionaires. I hope to meet him in person someday and shake his hand.

Leonard built some rifles for Jeffery as did another dozen individuals and companies. They are in serial number blocks (yes, I have copies). I am in the lower 48 states traveling and won't be back in Alaska until April first. Then I can go through my file cabinets and pull out the information needed. If you note the back of the action on Jeffery doubles--some are flat, some are concave, some have a unique curve to them. This was to the maker's taste and can be found in the serial number ranges of the makers.

I know of a few that are planning to bid on the rifle in question here. It will be interesting to see the price as I have a file with every .600 I have seen sell in the past 12-15 years and it is interesting to see the prices. There are several in India waiting to come out including a Fraser single shot with double triggers and an octagon barrel. It has ugly India gold line engraving--but it is a .600.

Cheers, mates,
Cal

Cal,
You are correct, the Jeffery records are owned by and in the possession of a man who lives in Houston, Texas.

Well, at $25 I might take a swing, but not at $50! But then, I know absolutely nothing about these guns. Having said that, while hard to see, does the LOP seem rather short to any others folks?
Peter.

If it's in any sort of good shape you stole it not bought it for 5000 Euros! Congratulations!!!

I bid one kidney, but they wanted to see both and have a choice. I couldn't figure how to make THAT work.

Beautiful rifle though. Thanks for showing it to us, and to Cal for his information.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Too cute. Original finish?

Sorry Will it's to heavy for you and has one to many triggers. You'll have to let it go.

HA! I couldn't afford the apparent non-period 70's recoil pad.

I feel your pain brother!!

Christmas is around the corner, anybody here want to buy me this for Christmas? After all, it is better to give than to receive...