Posted as a caution.

Out shooting with a friend on Sat at a 100yd target across his pasture. We were primarily shooting heavier rifles - my 450/400 3" and his 416 Rigby. Also had a .17, 257 and 338 to fill in between larger bores. If we had been closer, or if wind was not a major factor, I would have probably have taken the 1.5x5 out of the claw mount and started with irons.

The wind was fairly brisk and I was having trouble getting off the first shot of the day from an offhand position so I stepped over to a sawed off ceder that was slightly lower than I would have liked to use as a rest. Even with that rest, I found the cross wind was causing a noticable pivoting around my left hand. I found myself leaning over slightly, while concentrating on getting the right barrel off almost like target shooting anticipating the swing. Might should note that I had put on a fairly new pair of shooting gloves and that I don't normally use gloves unless skeet or sporting clay shooting.

When the round went off, I caught myself going backwards not really sure what had happened. My buddy said something about the recoil, and the first thing I consciously did was stroke my left hand down the barrels to see if one had ruptured. I then opened the action and both cases ejected. I've probably fired that rifle close to 200 times and about 100 of those have been with the scope. I've never had the barrels double, nor have I had that happen with a lot of sxs double barrel shotgun shooting over many years. I was wearing a billed cap that was still on under ear muffs so I took those off and asked if it looked like the scope hit me he said, looks like a "sticher". A few seconds later it seemed like the faucet was turned on... Good news was he had 6 sutures at his place and is imminently qualified to use them so I missed what would have likely been most of the afternoon in an emergency room.

The scope impact was between my eyebrows and actually towards the left of center even though I am right handed/right eyed.

We were shooting again in less than 30 minutes but you can bet I was focused when touching off the 3rd round of the afternoon. Shot a box of 20 over the course of the afternoon with no other problems. I'm as near certain as it's possible to be that it was totally my doing by the leaning over position, use of the right hand glove and probably too relaxed when touching off the shot(s). The first one was actually pretty good --- second could be in orbit for all I know...

After that you can bet I am going to be a lot more careful, and may even experiment with left barrel (rear trigger) first.

Take care,
Emory

Emory

I have doubled my 450 No2 twice and my 9,3x74R twice.

With the 450 once I shot while wearing camo slick gloves, and once from an awkward position.

With the 9,3 I was shooting at targets, trying for the "best group".

Double rifles are a different breed of cat, and require a little different Manual of Arms.

First, put more of your trigger finger on the trigger, maintain a firm grip on the stock till well after the shot.

Double rifles "ain't" no bench rest gun, do not shoot them like one.

Glad you are OK.

Strangely enough I have never double my 450/400.

Whats up with that???

quote:

The first one was actually pretty good --- second could be in orbit for all I know...

After that you can bet I am going to be a lot more careful, and may even experiment with left barrel (rear trigger) first.

Eureka!

I did the same thing, my finger slipping off the front trigger and pulling the rear trigger when the first elephant I shot turned around to have a look at me. Luckily the first shot was sufficient.

I had an argument (discussion!) going on another forum about pulling the rear trigger first. There were many arguing that pulling the front trigger first was the proper firing sequence but no one could tell me why.

I always pulled the rear trigger first because I could remember to pull the front trigger second subconsciously but not vice versa.

I grew up using a single trigger bolt-action rifle. Sometimes you just can't take the redneck out of a double rifle user, and hence much prefer single trigger doubles, shotguns or rifles.

Now if you think the question of the preferred trigger-pulling sequence set off the traditionalists on a heresy rant, you must really stand back if you mention a single trigger being preferred on a double rifle.

First double rifle I ever fired was a Rigby in 450/400 3&1/4. The length of pull was a bit long for me and I barely had my finger on the front trigger. Man did that rifle slap me!
Both rounds printed next to each other, with the second just a big higher.

Haven't been cut yet,. . .yet!

my 1st 470 had this thing where either one barrel would go off and the other wouldn't or it would double. If nothing else i ended up being pretty good at catching it when it flew out of my hands

I have been there and done that, ouch.

Hello, my name is Perry and I have doubled my 450NE#2, my 45-70, my 303, my 416/500 and a friend's 500NE during a DRSS shoot in Texas. Now I have admitted my problem and can begin to heal. It was always my fault for poor trigger control or too loose a grip on the gun. Doubling the light 450 and the 500 were like being struck by lightning, but the only damage to me or the guns was to my pride.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

The first one was actually pretty good --- second could be in orbit for all I know...

After that you can bet I am going to be a lot more careful, and may even experiment with left barrel (rear trigger) first.

Eureka!

I did the same thing, my finger slipping off the front trigger and pulling the rear trigger when the first elephant I shot turned around to have a look at me. Luckily the first shot was sufficient.

I had an argument (discussion!) going on another forum about pulling the rear trigger first. There were many arguing that pulling the front trigger first was the proper firing sequence but no one could tell me why.

I always pulled the rear trigger first because I could remember to pull the front trigger second subconsciously but not vice versa.

I grew up using a single trigger bolt-action rifle. Sometimes you just can't take the redneck out of a double rifle user, and hence much prefer single trigger doubles, shotguns or rifles.

Now if you think the question of the preferred trigger-pulling sequence set off the traditionalists on a heresy rant, you must really stand back if you mention a single trigger being preferred on a double rifle.

I gotta admit a heresy ... as I was first learning to deal with a DR, I decided the idea of doubling one gave me distinctly unpleasant feelings.

So I decided that I'd use the back trigger first and as I lowered the barrels for the second round I'd learn to reach forward for the second shot. (Sort of like reaching for the trigger of a recoiling Ruger SBH.)

Wasn't difficult to do and has kept me from the big ouch so far. May not be kosher ... but strikes me as being safe.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
I gotta admit a heresy ... as I was first learning to deal with a DR, I decided the idea of doubling one gave me distinctly unpleasant feelings.

So I decided that I'd use the back trigger first and as I lowered the barrels for the second round I'd learn to reach forward for the second shot. (Sort of like reaching for the trigger of a recoiling Ruger SBH.)

Wasn't difficult to do and has kept me from the big ouch so far. May not be kosher ... but strikes me as being safe.

That's actually not a bad idea.

I got caught up in the recoil thing, initially. It's really not all that bad, mostly in our heads, you won't/don't notice it in the field. BUT...adding a scope to the mix can get you fucked up in a hurry. Higher powered scopes really need to be limited to the medium bores or smaller. 40 cal and up can be scoped but they need to be compact units with generous eye relief, or one of the many designs that use a dot or holographic reticle. This really hasn't been developed worth a damn for this application and barely for common sporting guns. Tony (450 NE 2) is on to it. Takes work, patience and money. I'm about to dip into it too. Much of this would be solved by proper ghost ring peeps but these, in proper design and application, are rare even when compared to dot sights.

My scope is on a Chapuis ... and my Searcy is so old that it can't support a mounted scope easily.

I've used dot and holo sights a lot of IPSC firearms and like them very much. Even with my old eyes they provide very, very fast target acquisition. I'd like to try a holosight on the Searcy mounted on the rib. From a functional point of view it would be perfect for close work.

He who shoots double rifles will envaribly double one at some point in his life...usually because he followed poor advise about having to shoot the front trigger first as that is the way they are regulated..That my friends is a croc, an old wives tale that has haunted double rifle shooter for eons...I have tested this out on many many double rifles and it makes not one bit of difference, and it prevents doubleing from a rifle that is not out of sinc...

I tried a few shots with rear trigger first on Saturday. That was 4 pairs (8 shots of 20 total). Both barrels print close enough to where I don't normally try to keep track of each round in a pair. When I do, I generally use a benchrest target with the 8" or so horizontal separation between squares shooting each barrel a it's respective square. That way it's easy to shoot pairs quickly, yet keep up with the barrel groups --- superimpose them if you want the composite groups. Doing that Saturday, I could not tell any significant difference with the rear trigger first pairs...

Emory

The first, and only double rifle I've doubled was my little 140E merkel double 9.3X74R, and is was simply I didn't expect the recoil to be as heavy as it was, and didn't get hold of the rifle properly. My finger slipped off the front triggee and hit the back one. The right barrel printed dead center on the target at 50 yds, the left barrle hit a heavy steel I-beam above the shooting bench, and full 2 1/2 feet higher than the rifle,and four feet in front of the rifle, from a standing position. It the I-beam hadn't been there the left barrel would have shot completely over the back stop 50 yds away.

Pulling the rear trigger first would have avoided that double discharge. So if your rifle shoots the same way is is supposed to when pulling the front trigger first, let fly, it's yours!

I have shot both shotgun, and double rifle front trigger first all my life, and the only reason I doubled the little Merkel was I missjudged the recoil and didn't grip the rifle properly, no other reason. The little 9.3 being almost the smallest double rifle I had ever shot, I simply was not ready for it's kick. My double rifle experience has been mostly with very heavy recoiling rifles of very large chamberings, and I had never doubled one till that little rifle, and none since!

On the rifles not shooting prioperly by front trigger first, that is fact with some doubles, because I had two over the years that would blow the second shot in the sequince when fired that way. There is a reason the right barrel is always worn more than the left on old double rifles! Can anyone guess what that reason is?

I like to pull the back trigger first because it feels more comfortable than un-naturally stretching out for the front trigger.

I feel I can make a more accurate first shot without thinking about how I am holding the rifle or whether I am bent over trying to shoot under a limb...

The second shot may not be as accurate that way but by then the animal is on the move anyway and usually behind some brush.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
He who shoots double rifles will envaribly double one at some point in his life...usually because he followed poor advise about having to shoot the front trigger first as that is the way they are regulated..That my friends is a croc, an old wives tale that has haunted double rifle shooter for eons...I have tested this out on many many double rifles and it makes not one bit of difference, and it prevents doubleing from a rifle that is not out of sinc...

\

Amen, Ray it's a croc of tradition, only if you have shot a double shotgun thousands of times pulling the front trigger first on clay birds or feathered ones would or should it be an issue, if not PULL THE REAR TRIGGER FIRST ON BIG BORE DOUBLES or have fun getting yours to double when you least expect it.

Dirk

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
He who shoots double rifles will envaribly double one at some point in his life...usually because he followed poor advise about having to shoot the front trigger first as that is the way they are regulated..That my friends is a croc, an old wives tale that has haunted double rifle shooter for eons...I have tested this out on many many double rifles and it makes not one bit of difference, and it prevents doubleing from a rifle that is not out of sinc...

\

Amen, Ray it's a croc of tradition, only if you have shot a double shotgun thousands of times pulling the front trigger first on clay birds or feathered ones would or should it be an issue, if not PULL THE REAR TRIGGER FIRST ON BIG BORE DOUBLES or have fun getting yours to double when you least expect it.

Dirk

Have you read JPK's post about him double-trigger doubling when the bull charged? After all the volumes of baloney about pulling the front trigger first! Dang, I was right again.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Have you read JPK's post about him double-trigger doubling when the bull charged? After all the volumes of baloney about pulling the front trigger first! Dang, I was right again.

Yes Will, read it this AM. Dang, it is unbelieveable Will your right again.

The difference between JPK and I is that I never would have admitted that I did it.