I cam across a very old gun that was brought back to the states after WWII. It is neither a military gun or of the WWII era.

One side is chambered in 45-70 and the other in 16 gauge. It has only one line of inscription in German that is so faint I had to take some pics of it with my 30D Canon. I am going to have to zoom in letter by letter to decipher and translate. There is a pheasant on the bottom of the trigger guard, the rest is freehand stuff. Everything is 100% original including, I think, the old leather sling.

My question is: Where would I start to try to find some history about this thing once I have the inscription translated back to English? Is there a site [maybe here} where I could post some photos and get some feedback?

Thanks in advance!

Sounds like a German or Austrian Cape Gun. Hammer or hammerless? How did you determine the caliber of the rifle barrel? While certainly possible that a German or Austrian rifle could be .45/70, there's a better chance that it isn't - just something fairly close. Make a Cerrosafe chamber cast and slug the bore. Post the inscriptions and proof marks here, and I'm sure that we can figure it out.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

They are hammered barrels. Maybe not 45/70, that's just what the old timer told me. If I can figure out how to post a pic, I'll get a couple up shortly.

Thanks!

It is common to find vintage German and Austrian guns with no makers name. They are reffered to as guild guns but the old wives tail about them being unmarked for submission to a guild is just rumor.

Some of the gunmaking towns assinged a number code to each gunmaker it will be marked along with the proof's. There should also be a two digit proof indicating the year the gun was built and the town of orgin should be stamped on the barrels. The caliber should be there as well although most of this will appear to be in code.

Having said all that alot slips through the cracks after a hundred years. Proof laws changed several times from 1925 to 1939. some guns got reproofed and old proofs get stamped over or removed. Any info you can find will help narrow it down.

It's not impossible that it could be a 45-70. Several old U.S. cartridges were popular in vintage G & A guns. The 30-30,25-35 and .22 savage high power were common. Do take .400's advice and cast the chamber and the bore because as he said the chances are good that it's something that only appears to be a 45-70

CONTACT DIETRICH APEL'S

GERMAN GUN COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION

THEY CAN PROBABLY HELP.

Does the name "Schaferick" ring any bells? I think that's the last name in the phrase ingraved on top in between the barrels.

I can't figure out how to post pics guys, sorry..

quote:

Originally posted by abacomarlin:
They are hammered barrels. Maybe not 45/70, that's just what the old timer told me. If I can figure out how to post a pic, I'll get a couple up shortly.

Thanks!

What do you mean by "They are hammered barrels"?

400 gave you good advice! Do a chamber cast, and slugg the barrel. While your at it do a chamber cast of the shot barrel as well, because most of the old 16 ga shotguns are chambered for the short 16 ga shot shell.

Your gun is definetly a "CAPE GUN" , and if you mean "DAMASCUS BARRELS" by the phrase "HAMMERED BARRELS" then it is almost asuredly a black powder firearm, and needs to be inspected very carefully,by a good gun smith, if you intend shooting it! Some pictures would be very helpful!

Thanks for the great advice and help guys. The gun has two external hammers.

Unfortunately it is three hours away from my hands in the home of a WWII veteran way WAY out in the North Carolina mountains. I am just trying to help him find out the history.

I have some pics but can't figure out how to post them. I could email them to someone and have them help me.........

Thanks again for everything so far!

email the pictures to me and I will post them.
rkmojo@aol.com

Typically the last name printed on the rib of one of these guns is the makers town. If that is the case I've never heard of it but there have been many guns built in small villages over the years.

Is it a side by side or over & under. If it is an O/U (Hahnbockbuchsflinte) that might narrow it down a little because I belive most of those would have been built on the Ferlach model 33H forging.

If it is a SxS (buchsflinte or cape gun) then it could be almost anything.

Did you get photo's of the proofs?

Rusty-
I sent you 3 pics. I guess it's some type of cape gun w/ Damascus barrels but it would be neat to be able to tell the guy who owns it, who is 89 years old, more about it.

Let me know where on the gun I should look for addt'l info. I am going back up there next week and will have some time to really dig into it, but the location is in the mountains outside Murphy, NC and they wouldn't know what a computer was if it dropped out of the sky and hit them on the head, let alone cat 5 wire and a router/modem!

You know, with all the pissing, moaning and criticism that is typically found on web sites, it sure is good to know there are still people out there who like to help others. I take my hat off to all you guys and once again, THANK YOU.

If I can ever repay the favor let me know. I can't take you to Africa but I do have a rather large boat and can catch the hell out of blue marlin!

Tom.

quote:

Originally posted by abacomarlin:

Let me know where on the gun I should look for addt'l info.
Tom.

Take the fore-end off, and remove the barrels from the action. On the flats on the bottom of the barrels, and the top of the action bar (water table) you will find stampings. These stampings are proof marks, and usually give load information. Any numbers found under the wood on the barrels are indications of the maker, and origin. Place a piece of paper over the marks, and with a lead pincle blacken the paper leaving the marks visible. Write down where each of these marks are on the barrels, or action. Once you get these marks, and/or numbers, get in touch with 400 Nitro Express, he knows more about proof marks than anyone I know! He is strongest on British marks, but can likely tell what you need to know about a German rifle as well!

Cape guns are usually made in Germany, and are called "CAPE GUNS" because this was a favorite type of firearm used by the settlers in south African Cape country. The gun was used for all hunting, be it bird, or antelope!

The gun you are looking at, haveing damascus barrels, and exposed hammers is "OLD", and unless taken very good care of, is not suitable for shooting, as rust is a real enemy of domascus barrels, makeing them unsafe to shoot, and even if good, the gun is most likely a black powder firearm.

Here are the picture that were sent to me.

Aside from the obvious, anything look familiar guys?

Looks like the rifle bbl. is fluid steel, hard to tell with only pics. but looks different from the twist on the shot bbl.

Does it look to be a "standard" old cape gun to you guys, or is it too hard to tell?