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Okay guys, I know big doubles are lots and lots of fun but how big a gun does a client hunter really need for buff, hippo, elephant, and lion? After all, Todd shoots elephants while they are leaning against a tree sleeping  If i was starting over again, I would buy a nice .375 flanged and be done with it. Pondoro was right. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | ||
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 Todd, you da man!Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Dave, I've done a lot of big game hunting with several different 375H&H chambered rifles, and there is a reason the 375H&H is so popular among big game hunters world wide. Having said that I do like a pair of rifle for hunting Africa, and as anyone who knows me can tell you I always hunt with a double rifle if I can. With that in mind I would love to have a pair of double rifles, one chambered for 375H&H flanged, and the other chambered 500NE. Even though the 375H&H flanged mag with a quick detachable variable illuminated scope would do all I'll ever be able to do at this point in life, and health and the 500NE not being "NEEDED" it would still be my top end double rifle for Africa. These opinions are nothing new, and if I could afford to hunt several elephants my rifle would always be a 500NE double rifle. For everything up to, and including cape Buffalo a 375 FL double rifle would do! opinions vary, and this is just one of many! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Dave, It's not and never about need. If it were, then we would all hunt with Savage 110s in 375 because that's all we would need NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Come nose to nose in the Jesse or papyrus with a buff , lion or ele and even a 450cal feels light weight. | |||
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The client needs what he can actually shoot well and not what he or someone else thinks he needs. If he wants to shoot a 500 but can only handle a 375, then he "needs" to be shooting that. Sometimes it goes the other way round with less than satisfactory results. Rather have a heart/lung shot with a 375 than a gut shot with a 577. However, if he can shoot a 600 well, and wants to, then he "needs" to shoot that. (Self actualization thing) | |||
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Hopefully not sounding like a broken record, may I submit that Sam/Michael458's scientific study of these new design bullets really seems to have changed the options so much. They've PROVEN that .280 sectional density is more than enough to brain elephant if the bullet is the right one, fired at high enough velocity. 275 grain .375 caliber 330 grain .411 cal 410 grain .458 cal 455 grain .483 cal 510 grain .510 cal* (interesting) 670 grain .585 cal 750 grain .620 cal are all just about .280 S/D. I think that a guy would be well served to move up to .411 cal. from .375 given the above, and thereby gain the extra frontal area. D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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450/400 nitro....pretty good compromise. You can use bigger,but a 450/400 will get'er done. Ed DRSS Member | |||
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The 450/400 will also do it all with out kicking hard enough to make goon bullet placement a problem. Also in a double you can get a very quick 2nd shot off with that level of recoil. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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Had my last buffalo (shot at within ten meters in thick swamp perpyrus) decided to charge in lieu of fleeing after shooting it in the chest with a 458 soft, things would have Been interesting even with such a big round. In that case bigger the better rules. And in that thick perpyrus I certainty was happy the tracker badly 9.3. | |||
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My guide in Burkina Faso is only armed with a single shot gun 12ga . Not very good for back up if something go wrong ! The reason why i prefer my 460WM rifle . Also i have a DR 577NE and a DR 600NE ! | |||
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I agree Garndveneur! Unfortunately most PHs in Burkina Faso rarely make enough money from the hunting business to afford a very expensive double rifle of a proper chambering. however, either of your three are far superior to a single shot 12 ga shotgun. If those were mine I would sell the WBY 460, and buy a French made V-C double rifle chambered for 375NE flanged , and have them mount a Trijecon 1.5x24, or 3-9X40 illuminated scope in a removable base that would return to zero if removed and re-mounted. Then you would have all bases covered! and all with the quickest two shots in very reliable rifles and still not give away anything to longer shots with the scoped 375 FL mag double rifle. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Got a couple of video clips getting off a very quick and well placed 2nd shot with a 577NE! Some with the 500NE as well!! Just sayin!  | |||
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You arE getting soft my friend - "bush tap" is getting you eh? BTW - makes me wonder - what were you doin' in that stuff anyway - I was told that game is looking for a shelter entering those premises...time to give 'em a break mate? | |||
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I agree Garndveneur! Unfortunately most PHs in Burkina Faso rarely make enough money from the hunting business to afford a very expensive double rifle of a proper chambering. however, either of your three are far superior to a single shot 12 ga shotgun. If those were mine I would sell the WBY 460, and buy a French made V-C double rifle chambered for 375NE flanged , and have them mount a Trijecon 1.5x24, or 3-9X40 illuminated scope in a removable base that would return to zero if removed and re-mounted. Then you would have all bases covered! and all with the quickest two shots in very reliable rifles and still not give away anything to longer shots with the scoped 375 FL mag double rifle. [/QUOTE] It's right that i am a little bit overgunned with my 460WM for hunting buffalos , but i like this old Brevex rifle . The hunting area on the east side of Burkina Faso near the border of Niger is oftens very open , the stalking sometimes very difficult and the temperature very high . Shooting at longer range is not rare . A DR is imho not the first choice for hunting in this country . | |||
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THe 460 Weatherby is the BEST of all worlds! and with CEB bullets I'm betting nothing will beat it when it comes to performance on game. Wayne Grant makes a great case for his decision to carry one and I agree 100%. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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It's for me nearly a allround cartridge ! I shot a lot of game with it , from bird to elefant !  | |||
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Originally by JORGE: "THe 460 Weatherby is the BEST of all worlds! and with CEB bullets I'm betting nothing will beat it when it comes to performance on game. Wayne Grant makes a great case for his decision to carry one and I agree 100%." IMO, the super speedy cart's are for those who INTEND to shoot their targets at greater distances, compared to the folks who prefer to stalk up closer to their game. I just don't care for long shots. The stalk up close is the best part of the hunting process for me, right up to when I am squeezing the trigger, but I have not yet caused the firing pin to strike the primer. Once that happens, it all starts to wind down for me. (unless more shots are needed) I understand hydro- static shock on beasts from higher velocity hits. But if you're close enough you can cause that with 2400 FPS MV and slower even. D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Wayne Grant uses it from up close to settle a leopard to two hundred to anchor a fleeing elephant poorly shot by a client. With the Weatherby one can do both. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Mac: I agree with you 100%. I start these threads for two reasons. 1. sometimes it gets pretty quiet over here in the double rifle forum. 2. but mostly cause I know it drives our friend Todd nuts....LOLOLOLOL  Next week I am going to tell you about my trip to the Okavongo where I shot an elephant, a lion, a buff, and two hyena, all with my .243  Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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I certainly see the concept with the above elephant. A lot of highly respected people have offered other thoughts on charging cats up close. D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Dave leave Todd alone! He takes this stuff seriously! You and I can pick at each other tongue-in-cheek, but Todd doesn't suffer jokes well, and it turns his gut inside out. He's a good guy, leave him alone! .....................................................IN Coming!!!  ..........  .......................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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If we're talking about this client hunter, one that gets him 8,000 ft.-lbs. of ME. But of course that would not be a measly double! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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The Tracker was keen to follow this crop raider into the swamp and so was I;  | |||
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Yea, I know, he is a very fine fellow...Okay, no more pot stirring, I promise. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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..................Yea Riiiiiiight! I'm sure you will through the stir-pot out the outhouse door! UUUummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm huh!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I have made my last African hunt and in real fact most any hunting but maybe coyote which I can do just by sitting. I scratched my lifetime desire to hunt Africa with a double rifle some time back when I killed an elephant with a 470 Merkel bought specifically for that hunt. Last one I killed with a 416 Rigby CZ 550 custom. I really think the 416 Rigby will fill any hunting purpose I might have if I were still hunting Africa. While I like the 375 (currently own 4 of them) I believe the 416 Rigby is by far the better round for absolute one rifle use in Africa. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Need vs want. I love the 375 Flanged as it will do it all. IMO. To shoot an elephant with a bore rifle is the ultimate, preferably an 8. That goes back to my favorite African times. | |||
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Hey Dave, Why do you own that 500NE? Can't you get the job done with that little rat caliber .375? | |||
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I got a .450/.400 because it was the only double I could find at the time. If I had found a good bigger one second-hand, I would have got the larger caliber, though, and maybe done most of my practice with three-quarter loads in case the body rebelled at the heavy stuff. I'm sure you would not feel any recoil when hunting dangerous game, at least with a heavy .450 or .470 double. | |||
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I'll stick with my 13 pound 600NE for elephant and Cape buffalo. I've not yet hunted hippo or lion and probably will never have the opportunity for rhino but the same 600 is what I'd use in every case. Yes I've trapsed plenty of miles with it in hand while hunting and never once have I thought "I wish this was lighter". Srose and DoubleDon each regularly hunt Africa with their 577s - never heard either complain about the weight or recoil of their doubles. Same goes for Cal Pappas and Mark Sullivan - not a peep about weight or recoil. Hunt with what you like. Nothing wrong with 375Fl or 450-400 or 450NE or 500NE - have had 'em all. I prefer my 600. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Todd: The 500 is a lovely gun. However, the pad seems to slip off the leather pad on my tweed hunting jacket. In addition, when shooting the 500, I sometimes lose my pipe and it knocks my pith helmet askew. Jolly good round though, mostly for guys who aren't to sure of themselves. My .375 is a gentlemen's gun. It has the feel of my 16 gauge Purdey side-by-side that I use for hunting driven grouse in Scotland. When we close in on a pride of lions, I usually light my pipe and take my .375 Holland & Holland Royal from my gun bearer and stroll in and collect a lion or two. Jolly good fun old chap.  Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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You two guys are a hoot! .............................................................. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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