Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply |
One of Us |
I would like to thank every one for the great input in my education on double rifles. In January I bought a Sabatti 9.3x74R Basic my first double rifle. There were 2 to chose from at the Dundee, Mi store I chose the one with the best target. I bought 5 boxes of Hornady ammo, all I need was the weather to break, well the snow melded in May time to break the Sabatti in. Per what I read here that rifle bench shooting is not the way to go with a double. So I made a frame so I could stand up and shoot. Wearing a light leather glove on my left hand so not to burn my fingers wrapped firmly around on the forearm. Resting my hand on a sand bag to steady my shots at a 50 meter target. Well the guy in Italy must be one hell of a better marksman than me. The gun shot right barrel 4" high 2" to the left in a 1 1/2" group for each barrel. What I'am saying the barrels crossed at 20 meters. I tried to even mount a scope on the gun it helped a little, shrinking the groups, but still crossing at 20 meters. 60 rounds and 3 shooting sessions. Then I though maybe try to reload some rounds to slow the ammo down from a 2280 fps, to stop crossing. Got the RCBS dies out lubed up a case and just about had to stand on the press to size the case. When I compared a fired case to a new you could see how much larger the fired case was by eye. That was it, I contacted CCMDoc for some advise on what I could do. He advised me to contact Dundee Gun Manager and there should be no problem to correct the problems. THANKS Paul I called Jeff Morse 7/6, he said Cabela's will do what ever I want, made a appointment for 7/8 to meet him. I received a full refund. Now the hunt for a new double! | ||
|
one of us |
Seems like getting into the gray area. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
One of Us |
'yote wacker....pm sent Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
|
one of us |
Seems folks are finally learning that the words, "CHEAP and "DOUBLE RIFLES", don't belong in the same sentence! .................................. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
One of Us |
Sorry to hear that. Couple of questions. Did the Sabatti come with a test target and what did it look like compared to how it actually shot ? Were the muzzles / barrels ground out at all. . | |||
|
One of Us |
Consider a Chapuis or Merkel when you begin your search. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
One of Us |
The muzzle was not ground! This is a picture of the factory target. This is the factory unfired case and a fired. I had copies of all my targets, but had a computer crash and are lost. Cabela's has my targets with the gun. | |||
|
One of Us |
Wow that is a big chamber for the cases to expand that much. Did they eject OK or were they sticky? | |||
|
One of Us |
I'll be bumping this thread shortly with the results of my Sabatti. Here's the rifle and test target Mike has seen it, its certainly a pretty gun. This weekend should tell how it shoots. Muzzles are unground, if it shoots as nice as the test target shows I'll be happy. If not, Ft Worth will be refunding some money. Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
|
One of Us |
I don't have ready access to the 9.3 case dimensions, are they within SAAMI Spec ? If not, that is not good for a gun that is made in a country that supposedly adheres to specs. . | |||
|
One of Us |
I wish I had time this week end AK_Stick,to see you give it a work out.. But... have fun with it. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
One of Us |
AK_Stick, welcome home! Please do let us know how it shoots. PM if you want to get a shoot together for next weekend. Bob DRSS "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?" "PS. To add a bit of Pappasonian philosophy: this single barrel stuff is just a passing fad. Bolt actions and single shots will fade away as did disco, the hula hoop, and bell-bottomed pants. Doubles will rule the world!" | |||
|
One of Us |
They had to be pulled, with a little effort. the wouldn't fall out when you raised the muzzle. I think what Sabatti is calling FINAL TUNING, is regulation of the sights, not the barrels. | |||
|
One of Us |
I'd return it for a refund. They should just slide out when you lift the muzzles. Re Final tuning, I don't think Sabatti know what they are doing. . | |||
|
One of Us |
This is the nail in the coffin for me. If they could build a dependable gun for this price they would own the market. Maybe they will eventually get their shat together.I think Cabelas exclusivity is short lived. Selling soso 5g guns will not carry you far for long. | |||
|
One of Us |
They would make a million if they didn't have to keep giving refunds !!! - and of course they would sell a heap more if people didn't have reservations about them. . | |||
|
One of Us |
What did me in was when Cabelas got the exclusive rights to sell them. I had one on a wish list on one of the wholesaler webistes when they were listed as USSG guns. The 9.3s and 45-70s were at a dealer cost of around $1800 and the Nitro Express rounds were right at $2200 dealer cost. Then all of a sudden they weren't listed in inventory. I called the girl I always dealt with and she said they would not be getting any because Cabelas tied up the rights with Sabatti. A quick look showed a new retail price of a cool $5000 for the nitro model. Good grief, talk about gouging. I'm not putting $3000 in Cabelas pocket. | |||
|
One of Us |
Well mine is a shooter, I couldn't get her to shoot like the factory target, but certainly good enough for me. Recoil was brisk to say the least, and even in 45-70 the recoil pad was crap but accuracy was good. Will post some photos after I get back to the house. Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
|
One of Us |
As promised, a couple of photos. Left and Right at 100 yds 50m. 2 left, 2 right, the shot that hit the bull was a called flyer Not the best shooting, but I'm more than a little rusty at shooting real calibers, and the recoil was kicking the snot out of me. Plus I was getting used to the triggers. This was the first 4 shots down range. She definitely needs to get a better pad, and a little more length added so she fits me better. Actually have a bruise on my cheek bone from where she was catching me. Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
|
one of us |
AK Stick, From the bench? Same ammo as test target? Good shooting at a hundred yards by the way. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
One of Us |
Yes, from the bench, supported off my elbows. Same ammo, the hornaday leveroution 325 grain ammo Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
|
One of Us |
Ak-Stick: That is some nice shooting for being a little rusty. I love the looks of your rifle, the wood seems to be very pretty with a nice grain to it and to top it all, it shoots good. Alas though, its a Sabatti I wish they make them in 9.3x74 Where in.... our paths might cross some day, you can PM me if you like. Good hunting/shooting and God’s best Malek Best regards Malek Good Hunting/Shooting and God's best. | |||
|
one of us |
They do. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
One of Us |
I put a Pachmeyer Sporting clays pad on my Sabatti .45/70. Mine is the Old English Decellerator pad .8 inches thick. It makes a huge difference in felt recoil. The sporting clays pad has a smooth insert on the top part of the pad to keep it from hanging up on clothing. My .45/70 Sab has ground muzzles and I could have returned it. However, it shoots so well that I opted to keep it. I liked the Sporting Clays style pad so well that I put one on my Chapuis 9.3 as well. Malek, look at Cabelas website, Sabatti does make a rifle in 9.3x74R. | |||
|
One of Us |
As far as the brusied cheek, I think this is a fault of the generic style stock with a higher than necessary comb which is common to most "over the counter doubles". My 9,3 Chapuis does the same thing. Slightly higher comb which causes you to press down to line up the sights. Solutions include wittling down the stock, having it restocked, adding higher front and rear sights, or adding a scope. I hesitate to change anything on my Chapuis since it shoots so well with the stock irons. Since I can average 30 rounds at a time before the cheek gets puffy I can live with it. Giving some serious thought to selling this rifle and paying the extra money to have Chapuis build me a "bespoke" rifle to my stock measurements and with the left trigger in front, firing the left barrel as I am a lefty. Drop me a line if you want to meet at Birchwood some day and I can bring it for you to try as well as my Searcy 450 NE. With any luck I'll have the 450/400 VC within a couple of weeks as well. We are due for another Alaskan DRSS shoot anyhow My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
|
One of Us |
Will do, I picked up the Chapuis that Kebco posted for sale a couple three weeks ago, so I think its safe to say that I've been hooked. Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
|
One of Us |
Thanks for the post. I took the plunge on a Searcy last year after breifly considering the Sab's. Here's a 50 yard target. I'm very happy I spent the extra money. Brad | |||
|
One of Us |
If I could find a double that would shoot like that, I would bust the bank for it. That's some great shooting Brad! | |||
|
one of us |
Brad, can you really see that well with open sights at 50 yards? ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
One of Us |
Will One of my 500's does the same all the time - maybe a fraction more of a gap between the 2 shots which is what I prefer anyway. So yes, it is not that difficult to do IMHO. | |||
|
One of Us |
A true statement indeed! Cheap means corners need to be cut somewhere. | |||
|
One of Us |
Will: Yes I can see reasonably well. My 46 yo eyes have a slight amount of presbyopia so I really struggle with the sights on my CAR-15 (essentially useless) but the Seary is long enough to shoot well. My secret is to exactly replicate the sight picture that I see for every shot. Notice the size of the target is almost exactly the size of the front sight bead at 50yards so I try and place the front sight so I get exactly the same amount of coverage the entire 360 degree's arount the target spot. At 100 yards the spread is about an inch between shots. I am very happy with this rifle and this makes that 10k hole in my back pocket not feel so big. Thanks Brad | |||
|
One of Us |
Coyote wacker: Sorry to hear about your rifle and the way it shot. I can imagine it must be very disappointing. though at least you were able to resolve the issue with cabela's without a lot of hassle. Good luck on your rifle hunt. Will, MACD: Thanks for your input guys. I know Sabatti makes their blue CC ones in 9.3x74, I own one of those, which I love. A very pretty rifle, a tack driver, right at right, left at left 1" apart at 50m. I did enjoy shooting it tremendously couple of times when I was back home. What I was referring to in my post, if they offer a deluxe model in 9.3x74. I never saw one on cabela's site yet. Best regards Malek Good hunting/shooting and God's best Best regards Malek Good Hunting/Shooting and God's best. | |||
|
One of Us |
Not trying to be a snob, but +1. I know someone here in Anchorage who bought one in .450/400. I saw him on the range and he was pretty at the end of his rope. He couldn't make it shoot with..........ANYTHING! Factory or handloads of any combination the mind could contrive. So I'm in a local gun shop yesterday and I saw a .450/400 Sabatti for sale.......Yep it's his! I'd stear FAR clear of these things! Just my 2 cents! CW, I'd look at VC and Heym...........no flies on a classic British gun either if the pocket book allows! Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
|
One of Us |
Which means some other poor sod, probably a newbie is going to get burnt and then it will end up on another gun shop's shelf and then another poor sod, probably a newbie is going to get burnt. And these guys don't have the back up of Cabela's return for refund. And all this could have been avoided with a little extra time, a few more $$$ and care and attention. They still would have made just as much money, probably more because more would have been sold. . | |||
|
one of us |
I have only shot a couple of Sabatis and that was recently..I worked up loads for two clients and both shot well once you found the right load, then you usually have to file the sights in. Sounds like your gun is shooting pretty well you just have not gone about finding the proper load. The double gun is a different breed of cat and nothing in the gun world applies to doubles..You have to load it to cross at 50 or 75 yards then back off just a tad so that it will not cross. Before you start you have to fire several 3 shot groups with each barrel..The the barrel that shoots the worst or the larger group is goitn to be your goal, as that is as good as the gun can be expected to shoot..That is what you strive for in group size when shooting both barrels together.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
One of Us |
I bought a double 470 NE made by Mickelisch in Austria in 1958, anybody have any info on this guy?? Looking to take it to Tanzania next year so could use some reload date for 500g bullet.kld | |||
|
One of Us |
Italian gun manufacturers make the large turnover in shotguns, to make rifles is more or less very new. They just get the machine time used up with this kind of guns. About five years before there was only Zoli and Beretta making rifles all the others joined in the last 5-7 years. So they still in the refining process. Sabatti and others they offer since a few years double rilfes that is totally new for them. Nobody northern of the Alps came on the idea to asseble a double rilfe using Hornady ammo, that is only for a short time on the market, so the risk is high that they cancel them and in that case you can not buy factory ammo anymore for that double rifle. Most take RWS ammo because that is since over 70 years in nearly the same components available. They change as little as possible to keep the difference from Lot to Lot smale. They make still the origianl loads, which are about 30m/s slower then new loads with new developed components. But more powder weight and verlocity gives more heat and that is not liked by the double rifles when you shoot accuracy. (A perfect load has as litle powder as needed to get sufficent velocity but never the max possible). When the rifle not shoots at all then the regulation from the barrels was not made properly, take a box RWS ammo (most where regulated for the 18,5g softpoint or the 16,7g H type bullet). The first two should be ok and together even if they where regulated for the Hornady, because heat changes impact much more after the first two (3rd to 6th shot). 9,3x74R is a cartriage which is really good and many factory loads shoots together (after adjusting the elevation for the bullet and ammo shot) | |||
|
One of Us |
What he said. When a top builder regulates a gun how is it done. Grinding the muzzle seems like hack work, not something a mainline manufacturer would use. | |||
|
One of Us |
at Lilguy I do not think that anything came out of the Sabatti factory like above told. Sabatti is not a high end manufacturer but the rifles are ok made. The Italians would bring them back to the factory (stick it the staff in their a**) and many of them would have a longer drive then I have, down there. Quality control is not so great in Italy (I had a Beretta shotgun with extractor problems, I was driving to the factroy because the Imporing company just not made anything, they just send it back the same after 6 month!). And I think that is here the same, the rifles which not shoot came back, but they not send it to the manufacturer they repaired it by themselfe (destroyed it because not many have the equipment to regulate a double rifle). In Germany and Austria are a few gunsmith which can regulate and Double or Drilling rifle. But it cost close to EUR 2000. When one barrel must be replaced you can just add an other 1000. Buy it as close as possible so that you can show up there, the service is better and the quality because they know you will come again when they deliver rubbish. The Sabatti cost only EUR 350 less then the Merkel so that is realy not worse the trouble (I had once looked at a Merkel 140, it shoot so bad that I have not bought it). Here usually you can test shoot doubles (which are in stock) because otherwise nowone would buy it. And on the bespoken usually it is agreed on Suhler specs. (6shots 100m in 6cm is good, in 7,5cm is acceptable all above is second quality - bespoken guns have to stay below the 6cm group without cooling) In most cases the dealer does not take the gun back so the only is to go to Italy to the factory they repair it or get it shooting well for sure. | |||
|
Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia