Hello,
Slowly but surely building my "arsenal" of hunting rifles for eventual hunting trip to Africa. I have question as to whether I really need or even want a double rifle, but have shot them, handled nicely, and certainly would be a nice addition. However, follwing the thread about Searcy's double supposed problems, the double rifle here in the U.S. has limited useage other than just to be using one as I see it and that is fine, but question is as to reliable service work for a double while in Africa or other areas of the world. Do I understand that one has to ship a Searcy back to the U.S. to have it serviced/work performed/warranty, etc.?? Is that true with the British or Continental double makers?? do they have to go back to Germany, Paris, London, etc.??? Are there no service/'smiths in Africa set up to do this type of work when needed?? As others have pointed out, shipping firearms to the U.S. and even hunters traveling here with firearms is not easy task and you can rest assured it is not going to get any easier over time. Again, very curious as to how the various makers handle service/warranty work for their products.

Limited use?

Get a 9,3x74R have it scoped with a swing or claw mopunt and you will never have to have another rifle.

One might even have two different scopes on it, one for driven hunts and short range work and another one for night and or long distance shots.

Usefull out to about 250 meters on large game the 286 or 232 grain bullet will work wonders.

/C

Hello,
When I say "limited use..." I am referring to using the double rifle as a "stopping rifle."
If one wishes to use a suitable double rifle for all around use, that is certainly ones choice, just not mine. Did live in Alaska for some years, used Win. Model 70 375HH for about everything but only knew of very few double rifle users at that time. (late 70's/late 80's era) Do you have knowledge/answers as to the question of service/repairs overseas as in Africa???

First let me say the use of a double rifle for general hunting is very common in most countries outside the USA, and is the only rifle system that was designed for only one purpose, HUNTING! All others were first and formost designed for war weapons, and then adapted to hunting.

That out of the way, the service of double rifles is the same with all brands. The only difference being, the size of the maker. If he is small, he does his own warenty work, like Searcy. If the maker is a very large one, he may or may not have certified service people in many countries. This doesn't necessarily mean the service will be as good as that done by the maker, but is available. The thing is, if you live anyplace where it is dificult to get the rifle to a cretified service station, then, you must find a VERY GOOD gun smith that knows his beans to do your double rifle work.
I would never send one of my Westley Richards
doubles to the Westley Richards company in the USA to have anything done to it. I'd simply send it to JJ at Champlin's, because if you care for your double rifle, it will need precious little warenty work.

If you live in the USA, and have a Searcy, send it to him, if you live in the UK, and you have an H&H, send it to them, but send them a blank check along with the rifle, and find yourself a good money lender, because you are likely to need one, unless you are very flush! The Searcy will cost you shipping charges!

Regarding a thread we had some time back about a Searcy rifle in Botswana, needing service!

This is something I simply don't understand, why do people blame the maker of a rifle because they live in a country where the gun laws are so prohibitive, that it is a chore to get their rifle to the maker for service? That is not the fault of the rifle maker, it is the fault of the citizens of the country that have allowed their goverment to get out of hand!

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
Did live in Alaska for some years, used Win. Model 70 375HH for about everything but only knew of very few double rifle users at that time. (late 70's/late 80's era)

I don't think you will see many double rifles in use in Alaska today either! There are two reasons for this, #1 there are few, by comparison, double rifle users anyplace in North America, so by that alone, they would be rare to see in the field. #2 the weather in Alaska is hard on rifles,folks buy the Wal-Mart rifles, because they are easy to replace when they fall to rust.

Hello,
You are correct that the rifle is generally viewed as a tool to hunt/survive with in the bush and not in the least cherished as with a sport hunter. Not always true of course, but have seen pre '64 Win. Model 70's in coastal areas merely painted with dark brown/black house paint. Salt air does amazing things to steel items. Knew an older fellow north of Fairbanks and hunted with him and others at his "homestead area..." and he had a drilling of European mfg. and was in 9.3 and believe 16 gauge configuration. He would not use it in cold weather, blowing rain and sleet, etc. for had it sieze on him a couple times and was leary of it. Was a nicely done firearm, but far nicer than was needed for the manner and conditions in which we hunted. Believe it was a WWII "liberated" item and most of the time stood in the corner of his sod roofed cabin. Would imagine both he and the gun are in the "happy hunting grounds" by now.

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
Hello,
Slowly but surely building my "arsenal" of hunting rifles for eventual hunting trip to Africa. I have question as to whether I really need or even want a double rifle, but have shot them, handled nicely, and certainly would be a nice addition. However, follwing the thread about Searcy's double supposed problems, the double rifle here in the U.S. has limited useage other than just to be using one as I see it and that is fine, but question is as to reliable service work for a double while in Africa or other areas of the world. Do I understand that one has to ship a Searcy back to the U.S. to have it serviced/work performed/warranty, etc.?? Is that true with the British or Continental double makers?? do they have to go back to Germany, Paris, London, etc.??? Are there no service/'smiths in Africa set up to do this type of work when needed?? As others have pointed out, shipping firearms to the U.S. and even hunters traveling here with firearms is not easy task and you can rest assured it is not going to get any easier over time. Again, very curious as to how the various makers handle service/warranty work for their products.

Hard to answer a question that is based entirely on misconceptions.
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Not sure I understand exactly what you are asking.
If you live in the US and are planning trips to Africa for hunting why would you be concerned about shipping a Searcy back to the states for any repairs? Just take it home with you on your return flight.
As fas as finding service in Africa, do you really think your hunting time will allow you to find a smith (assumming a rifle breaks), have it repaired, and put back in your hands without affecting your hunting trip?
Just take an extra rifle and dont worry about the small stuff and enjoy the hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Not sure I understand exactly what you are asking.
If you live in the US and are planning trips to Africa for hunting why would you be concerned about shipping a Searcy back to the states for any repairs? Just take it home with you on your return flight.
As fas as finding service in Africa, do you really think your hunting time will allow you to find a smith (assumming a rifle breaks), have it repaired, and put back in your hands without affecting your hunting trip?
Just take an extra rifle and dont worry about the small stuff and enjoy the hunting.

--------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
Is that true with the British or Continental double makers?? do they have to go back to Germany, Paris, London, etc.???

On a current made rifle, repairs are not a problem because the theoretical part that you've broken is still available from the maker.

I can’t speak for the other brands, but practically anything you can break on a HEYM is repaired in the US. If you run over a set of barrels with your D9 dozer, then the gun will have to go back to Germany to have a new set of barrels made. If you accidentally cut the action in half with your cutting torch, then it has to go back to Germany for a new action to be made.

Everything else on the rifle is comparatively simple to repair. The rough part you need is either in stock here or shipped here from Germany. Then it’s simply a matter of having the new part fitted and finished.

Hello,
I don't believe I asked about carrying a spare rifle, backup, etc. but did inquire as to how ready service/repairs would be while on a hunt in Africa. After spending some many thousands of dollars on a seldom used rifle, ready service/repairs other than major ones, should not be a concern nor should one "worry" about carrying spare rifle because you can not get your double rifle repaired in a speedy fashion. In the event a spring or firing pin should break, then you pack it up in your case and take it home with you to be repaired???
As for the comments on the HEYM I hear what you are saying and understand, but apparently there are no ready repair centers, gunsmiths, easily obtained and that would seem to be the answer to my question. Thanks for the input.

Ok, Then to answer your question I would suggest you contact the agent you are booking thru and ask them who the local gunsmiths are in the area you are hunting and if they can repair your rifles you are taking.

There you go Snowolfe, good answer! One would think that the mfg. would also have that advise in order to support his product wherever it might be used, but again, good suggestion. Thanks

You might want to check with the manufacturer first. In most cases, having work performed on any rifle by other than an authorized service person will void the entire warranty.

I would be surprised to find many if any manfacturers outside of Africa with authorized repair centers in Africa. My bet is that the concerns posed regarding the repair of a double rifle would equally apply to a bolt rifle.

dsiteman

How the hell would a manufacturer know where a gun is going to be used ?

Just because some people go to Africa, doesn't mean they are all (or a majority) are used there.

And just because some people go to Africa, does that mean a mnaufacturer has to set up a service centre in Africa ?

Also, if you are 2000kms in the bush and 4000kms from say Jo'berg (assuming a good gunsmith who can look at the gun is in Jo'berg), who is going to get the rifle there and back if you are on a 2 week hunt - and who's going to pay for it all ?

And what if a main spring has gone (broken) - one would have to be brought in from wherever to be fitted - and that takes times, it's not just a drop in item.

Finally, if you gun is not "used" that often, then I would suggest you use it more to make sure it is in fine working order before you go.

I think you are being totoally unrelaistic and also worrying about something that you can't control.

Go out and enjoy the hunt and if shit happens, deal with it then.

First off Butch does have repair people in South Africa. I just helped a guy out with Butches guidance to get a rifle repaired there.

Second off I don't care what you are shooting from a Savage 110 to a royal grade H&H, if it tanks on you in the deepest darkest regions of Africa there is not going to be a certified company repair facility anywhere with in driving distance.

And finally I've owned two Searcy's the first was field grade that made multiple trips to Africa and countless trips to my ranch in Texas. I never had a problem with it that I couldn't fix myself with a simple screw driver set. In fact in the four years I had that rifle it never once had a mechanical problem. I had to tighten the safety once and I had two case head seperations due to multiple reloadings of a case. Both of which I was able to clear with the most minimal of efforts. In all I had over two thousand rounds through my last Searcy rifle with out a problem. Searcy's are solid working rifles most of the stuff I've read about them on the internut has to do with cosmetics or user error.

Johan Colitz possible the most experienced elephant PH in Southern Africa is a Searcy shooter and owns multiple Searcy's, they see year in and year out use, he doesn't have any complaints, in fact he just ordered a new one that is being delivered this summer.

There are far more trouble free Searcy's in service than not. These rifles are about as solid a dependable as it gets.

The Botswana incident we keep hearing about is a very strange one indeed. But even if it is the rifle that is having a problem and not the reloader let us for a moment imagine that the said rifle had been a Heym. Do you think for a second that he could have had a rep from Heym fly down to Botswana to fix his rifle? Is there a Heym dealer in Botswana with a certified repair facility?

Hell what if it had been a M-70 or a Remington? Same story.

And by the way if you have a D-9 run over your barrels on a Searcy it goes back to Boron Ca in the USA to get fixed. You can skip the brief years long interlude to the fadder land on that one.

But here is hoping that you keep your doubles away from cutting torches and bulldozers. Besides that there is very little that can go wrong with a solid double rifle.

Heym builds a fine rifle so does Searcy.

Hyem, Searcy, Chapuis, Krieghoff...Etc,

...Just like everything else on this planet: You gotta maintain it and do preventative maintenance to ensure performance over time.

I would recommend Butch's guns because you can do a year or so of shooting prior to a safari, shoot it in real good, say 500 or so rounds, send it back to Butch for a quick going over, get it back shoot 50 or so rounds to make sure you and your rifle are on and then go hunting!

The off shore brands are mostly excellent, but buying one from Butch would be a safe bet for getting prompt attention to your rifle.


BUT, don't call any of these folks in a big hurry and expect them to drop what they are doing because you have procrastinated and are in a last-minute jam!

JW

Hello,
Surestike, thanks for the hands on personal experience w/ a double, i.e Searcy. Also thanks for the helpful answers from Jeff,Jim and others.

I'm not an experienced African hunter (though I intend to be soon)nor am I a Double Rifle shooter (though I really want to be), but I felt it necessary to weigh on one subject covered here. That would be taking a back-up rifle. Damned if I'm spending several thousand dollars for a hunt and not have a back-up rifle. I don't travel on a hunt longer than 24 hours away from home, within my home state, without a back-up, not even when waterfowling. Anything mechanical is subject to failure, just the way it is. Otherwise, all the outfitters, from what I've seen, have nice rifles in camp for such an occasion.

As stated above, when you're hunting in Africa, which is a continent, not a country or state, and is a big ass place, you most likely arent' gonna be less that a day's drive from anything resembling civilization. Damned if I'd be burning $700-$1500 worth of daily fees to drive my rifle to some unknown to me gunsmith in some foreign country. Especially when you consider that you're gonna have to hang around for quite some time to wait on the repair, or have it shipped back to you. None of that makes sense.

Bottom line, don't get on that airplane without a back-up rifle, OR, without checking with your PH to ensure that a good back-up will be available in camp.

Stepping down off my soapbox, I open the floor to all the honorable DRSS members.

David Walker

My two rifles are a Searcy .470NE and a M-70 in .375H&H.

Never leave home without them.

Good point.

I'm not as experienced as some of our members, but for those that have taken their doubles all over the world, how often have they failed to perform? It's something that we all worry about, but is it really a problem, or just another neurosis that we use to justify taking a seccond rifle? Just curious? Personally, I've never had a rifle or shotgun not work on a big trip, but I have not done that many big trips.
Blfy

quote:

And finally I've owned two Searcy's the first was field grade that made multiple trips to Africa and countless trips to my ranch in Texas. I never had a problem with it that I couldn't fix myself with a simple screw driver set. In fact in the four years I had that rifle it never once had a mechanical problem. I had to tighten the safety once and I had two case head seperations due to multiple reloadings of a case. Both of which I was able to clear with the most minimal of efforts. In all I had over two thousand rounds through my last Searcy rifle with out a problem. Searcy's are solid working rifles most of the stuff I've read about them on the internut has to do with cosmetics or user error.

Blackfly,

From my post above.

AND,

I've never had a problem that shut me down with one of my doubles. They are not the fragile little butterflies that some on the internut make them out to be.

A good double is asolid working rifle that is as or more reliable than any rifle out there.

quote:

I've never had a problem that shut me down with one of my doubles. They are not the fragile little butterflies that some on the internut make them out to be.

A good double is asolid working rifle that is as or more reliable than any rifle out there.

Well said.

One of the nice things about a double is its simplicity - less moving parts to break or go bad. The KISS principle at work.

I have owned and shot a lot of English doubles and several of Butch Searcys rifles, my choice of a working gun is a Searcy, my latest is a 450-400 thats on order, I traded him the .470 that he won the Nationals with....

Searcy guns are mostly more accurate than English guns IMO, and a lot stronger. English guns are a better investment and will make you money, but I never liked packing them off to Africa and at the mercy of theives and airline gun destroyers as they cannot be easily replaced...

Yes, Butch is a personal friend of mine and a very good one, but I don't cut him any slack, and I believe what I say about his guns, they are the best hunting doubles on the market...

However if you do not feel the agonizing need for a double, then your just as well off with a good quality bolt gun on todays safari, I won't pamper you there with a bunch of BS. You do not sound like a double gun man according to your post, so you may not be a convert!

Hello Ray Atkinson,
You are correct that I have reservations about a double rifle and it's use for my purposes. I can certainly see why some are quite taken with them for often they are a work of art or perhaps a piece of "art at work...," but that is not what peaks my attention. Retired, have had health problems, may not walk around on planet earth as long as I would like and had considered going into the low to mid $20,000 range for a double, but I can do a lot of hunting and travelling and "suffer" a great deal with my RSM's and other rifles of choice for that amount of money. I believe I will abandon the double quest and to fill that nitch for a really high quality rifle, continue my research on the newly produced, true Mauser 98 they are now offering. Strongly agree that nothing quite handles/feels like a double rifle or shotgun for that matter, but can't have everything. Well, perhaps some can, but I will have to put up with that Mauser. Appreciate your no nonsense response. Good Luck!

quote:

Strongly agree that nothing quite handles/feels like a double rifle or shotgun for that matter, but can't have everything

I wouldn't get too worked-up about this. Unless you get a double properly fitted, it too is just another rifle, that is at least from this shooter's standpoint.

If I were in a position where I was only going to allocate a certain part of my income to a rifle and indeed was intending to use it for hunting / shooting, I'd spend the money on a properly fitted rifle irregardless of what type it was, i.e Bolt, DR.

You can get an Empire, or a Jarrett fully custom fitted for what I think are very reasonable prices considering what the non-custom import you are considering. And from what I've seen, both of these brands have excellent value in terms of quality, performance and re-sale. If you go with a double, get Searcy to build it for you.

JW

Apparantly the best way to find a good double without paying an arm and a leg is to be patient and wait until someone shows me a hotshot team roping horse, and you, like some here, can get mine cheap!

Ray,

I've got this 3-legg-ed mare that has dropped the finest foals ever...I'll trade her to you for an H&H .465 Royal and a little boot!!!

...She can still "Dally-up with the best of'em!

JW

isn't the kanahwa river in west virginia ?

is that where you are located ?

probably no repair facilities there either since the royal gun company went out of business ages ago.

Hello tomo577,
The answer to both questions is yes and no the Royal company has not existed for ages. Since the subject is repair of double rifles, have you ever have had yours worked on, or do you do such tasks yourself??
Must be a bit on the wet side if you are very far west of Erie. "Small" firm in that area mfg's locomotives,diesels, and such and claim to bring good things to life. Also make the electric drive/control units for
mini guns. Like they say, brings good things to life. Somewhat familiar with both items and Erie.