Has anyone out there ever owned or seen a Brno Model ZP-47 or 49 side-by-side shotgun in 20 gauge? I own both in 12 and 16 but have never seen a 20. I have in my workshop right now, a double rifle built either by or for Milan Machacek, Brno, on a Brno side-by-side action. This action is smaller in all respects than both the 12’s and the 16’s. Frankly, the only difference between the 12 and the 16 is the width of the breech balls. The date stamp on this action is 1948, about 10 years earlier than all of the mid-50’s to 60’s guns that I’ve seen.

Ron;

I would like to see photos of the rifle you have in your shop of a trimmed in size BRNO ZP 49 if you would be so kind as to post them. Does the this smaller sidelock action have the 8mm diameter hinge pin as the 12 & 16 ga actions? What caliber is the rifle as well? How are the barrels made on the rifle as well, i.e. chopper lump, shoe lump and so forth?

I have not seen a 20 gauge BRNO zp 49 or 47 although I have looked. I believe that more of these shotguns were imported into Canada than USA as I have not been able to find any evidence that there was a USA agent. I have a 1963 12 gauge that I am building now with shoe lump barrels--just finished the lump jointing yesterday.

Did you go back to Africa this year?

Regards;
Steve Howell

Steve,
I'll try to get some photos up when I have a few moments to myself. Hinge pin is 9mm. Barrels made with shoe lump process and beautifully done!

Several people have stated, EMPHATICALLY, that BRNO never made a 20. I have a very experienced acquaintance who insists that he's handled one. The action that I have on my bench is considerably smaller than my 16's and 12's. It also bears the Czech proof marks required for shotgun and also the nitro marks required for rifles.

Didn't get to Africa this year. Am heading to north-eastern British Columbia in late November to hunt wild bison with the .450 #2 that I built on a BRNO ZP-49, 12 bore.

Best,
Ron.

Ron;

I can't wait to see those shoe lump barrels photos as that is what I am building now for my latest Dbl Rifle, and on a BRNO ZP 49.

A 9mm hinge pin suggest factory involvement in supply of a non-heat treated action that could be bored to increase the hinge pin diameter from their standard 8mm. Of course the builder may have been a factory employee.

As my ZP 49 is factory heat treated increasing the hinge pin size was not an option--at least not an easy one. I chose to use the Holland & Holland system and method of jointing dbl rifle barrels that moves the barrel and lugs to the rear when the action is closed; leaving .004-.005" clearance between the hinge pin and the hinge pin hole in front lump.

The zp49 action is ideal for that as it has a extra thick and robust "draw" section in the action between the front and rear lumps and it is already factory milled in a straight plane instead of a circle. I made and jointed my shoe lump to contact the draw at 92 degrees angle, which is the factory milled angle of the draw. As a matter of fact the zp 49 action is likely the ideal action for building light to medium chamber pressure dbl rifles. I am going to proof test the dbl rifle at 50,000 + psi and we will see if it is take the abuse that I believe it will.

Fitting a shoe lump to the zp49 has not exactly been a piece of cake due to the low height of the firing pin holes; but I finally decided upon and engineering and machining method to overcome that after much contemplation and building several full size shoe lump prototypes.

The method decided upon requires the machining of 90 degrees of the breech end of the barrel radius (2.5" in length) where the top of the "shoe" can fit into the barrel radius and then brazed. The amount of steel removed from the barrel radius is directly proportional to the amount of distance of alignment of the fixed firing pin hole to the center of the chamber of the barrel.

I am about to begin building the gas fired bench top muffle for brazing the barrels to the shoe lump. At first, I had intended to build an electric muffle similar to the one used by David McKay Brown to build double rifle and shotguns there in Scotland, but decided on propane as a better solution for my needs--which most of the London and Birmingham makers use as well. The nearly perfect method would be to build an electric induction coil, but that is too expensive and involved at present and I do not have electrical engineering experience.

I think I still have your e-mail address and I will send you a photo when the the brazing work begins, which will be maybe a month or so, as also need to complete the final turning of the
barrel tapers.

Kindest Regards;
Steve Howell

Transvaal, hi.

It would be nice if you could post some photo's up here of the solution you came up with for shoe-lumping the barrels on the Bruno action.

I for one am interested and would be appreciative.

Rhodes.

Rhodes;

Thank you for your note.

I do not want to highjack Ron's post with all the complicated and involved procedures required to build a shoe lump and the barrels with it. Maybe sometime in the future I will start another post.

However, let say this, if you or another person desires or plans to build a shoe lump starting with just a 2" diameter round or square piece of 4140 alloy steel and has the equipment to do it (vertical and/or horizontal milling machine(s), one or more lathes, and full tooling for both mills and lathes) you can PM me and I can converse with you. 95% + of the members of this post I do not believe are interested in building one of these, as it is several orders of magnitude in technical and skill complications above even the building of a mono-block. For example, I notice that our colleague of this site that posted his photos of the assembled parts to build a shoe lump barrels has procured his mostly completed shoe lump pre-machined from others via computer controlled machining devices. I am certain that he would tell us that even his pre-machined shoe lump in hand and many hours of work remaining--especially in the preliminary jointing process, and then he has to braze the barrels to the shoe lump, and do the final jointing.

Further I should clarify what I said above: that I welcome PM correspondence from accomplished craftsmen and keen amateurs alike--who may be gathering their machine shop equipment for the future . I am in my mid-seventies now and maybe enough life remaining to help someone, God willing, and to finish this rifle for grandson.

Transvaal

Hello again Transvaal,

Thankyou for your reply and your very kind and generous offer, it is much appreciated and you are right in not wanting to divert Ron's thread. Please excuse me Ron.

I do have an interest in the different methods used in the building of doubles and the conversion of shotgun actions into well balanced, light and handy double rifles. I wish to tackle a project like this myself one day. I have access to the equipment but am time poor at present and a build like this is not something I want to start without the time to finish it. I have a Bruno ZP action and a pair of barrels waiting and would like to attempt a shoe lump arrangement as it is my preferred method of jointing barrels. Something I will attempt first in plain steel as it is no simple task. I have followed Ron's builds on these actions with great interest on NE in the past. So you can see my interest in your own project and the way you have resolved the issue with the firing pin centres, something I hadn't considered yet.

Anyway I have side tracked this thread enough. If you are still available when I am ready to begin my project it would be my pleasure to contact you for any information you are willing to share.

All the best with your project.

Regards
Rhodes

Please keep this discussion going. I love it, though I lack the ability to pull it off.