I have heard from a number of people that it's not uncommon for a double's trigger gaurd to run into your middle finger causing pain and flinching over time. Here's my thing. A year ago today I had NEVER shot a double rifle. Today I have shot from .30-06 to 4 bore doubles in a variety of cartridges at almost every point along the way for litterally hundreds of shots! Two days ago was the first time EVER the trigger gaurd touched my middle finger. What finally did it was a 4 bore with full power loads. I know how many 4 bores are out there and there aren't many, so my question is: Why is this so common? I don't get it. Not being a butt I just really don't understand. Perhaps if we can explain this other people can avoid having it happen. Is it that shooting form is poor? LOP is too short? I've shot .450s with LOP at least .5" too short without problems, so I'd imagine it would need to be really short! Stock design? Trigger guard design?????????? I'm not getting it. Thoughts?

Brett

I've seen a few people experience this and I've spoken with a few stockers about it. I believe it's a combination of a heavy recoiling rifle, a stock with the grip dimensions wrong for the shooter, improper shooting form and a guy with short sausage fingers.

My apologies to those with short sausage fingers!

This has happened to me in the past and recoil was not part of the problem in my situation.
I had a Searcy some years back in 470 N.E. that weighed in at 10.5 lbs with LOP of 14 5/8 that used to slap my finger against the trigger guard 90% of the time no matter how I gripped it. I now own a Heym in 500 N.E. that weighs 10.3 lbs w/LOP of 15 1/8 that does not recoil into my middle finger. Grip size on the Searcy was also larger than the Heym I have at this time so too short LOP and grip size were the issues behind the middle finger/trigger guard recoil slap. So my experience falls within the parameters of what 470Evans states above except recoil was not the issue.

I think it is caused by fit and LOP. I have shot doubles all my life and the only time this happened to me was with a 470 I owned that just didn't fit me and the LOP was a little short. Every time I shot it I had a bloody knuckle after the first shot. I have never had this happen with my other 470, 500 and 577.

Hard to say, I have a sxs shotgun I like but will hit my middle finger almost every time I shoot it even though the stock is the same as other guns I have and shoot with no problem. I suspect the shape of the triggerguard on this gun is the issue but not 100% sure of that.
One solution might be a rubber bumper behind the guard. Garbi shotguns come from the factory with them.
http://www.kebcollc.com/cart/s...9&action=show_detail
http://www.kebcollc.com/cart/s...8&action=show_detail
or CSM also has them
http://www.csmcspecials.com/Tr...Corners_p/corner.htm

I have been haveng the problem for a while now. It started with my Merkel 470. I thought it was to much gun but It was not. It was nerve damage caused by ignoring carpual tunnel and tendennitis in my right hand. I worked on LOP etc and got some relief. When it started happening with my 16 ga double I went to the DR.

I had a opperation on both wrist and was better for a while, I could shoot my double with out pain. It started coming back and the tendenitis got worse. My merkel would slide in my hand again.

I had orderd a ph action in 505. Even though I was not sure I would be able to shoot it I built it any way. To my surprise I did not have proplems with it.

At the last shoot and hoot I shot a full house 600 gr load in a 500 Nitro (A Ca. Rigby). I had no problems again, and it was a pleasre to shoot. Both grips were larger in dia than my Merkel and had palm swells.

I picked up a Chapruis in 470 , I slides a little but not enough to cause pain, the grip could be a hair fatter.

Gun fit, but more importantly hand strength and the ability to close your hand tight enough around the grip is what allows you to hang on. If your hands are healthy you can make them stronger, If you have nerve damage it does not mamater how strong you are, your grip will fail at some point.

If you are haveing numbness or weakness in your hand have it looked at!!!!


JD

Brett,
I bought several of the slip on rubber guards from Kebco a bit ago. I'll let you try it out and see if it'll work. For some reason the Sauer 450 doesn't hit but the Searcy 450 makes my finger swell up after a session at the range. The Hollis is fine also. No problems..

Guess I "dumped" that Searcy at the right time!!!!!

Ha! It probably ran away from home...

Rich
DRSS

I've had that happen with guns fitted with soft recoil pads. I think the gun is slipping back within the hands instead of moving with the body.

Think about this. If the trigger gaurd doesn't touch your finger before you fire, it has to mean that that the gun is moving back to hit your finger. If your hand moves back with the pistol grip the guard can't touch you. Get a grip folks!

465H&H

I use to have the same problem until I started squeezing a tennis ball and made a conscious effort to grip the double tighter. Don’t have a problem anymore. But we’ll see if it creeps back up when I receive my 577 I have on order.

Mac

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Think about this. If the trigger gaurd doesn't touch your finger before you fire, it has to mean that that the gun is moving back to hit your finger. If your hand moves back with the pistol grip the guard can't touch you. Get a grip folks!

465H&H

Very true. Aside from working out I work with my hands all day and my grip strength is signifigant. Perhaps that's why I didn't have a problem until I got to something with massive recoil.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Brett,
I bought several of the slip on rubber guards from Kebco a bit ago. I'll let you try it out and see if it'll work. For some reason the Sauer 450 doesn't hit but the Searcy 450 makes my finger swell up after a session at the range. The Hollis is fine also. No problems..

Thanks, but the ONLY time it's been a problem was with Cal's 4 bore and ONLY with full power loads. I don't plan on shooting tons of them! Luckily it was only coming back a little and tapping me on the middle finger.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
I have been haveng the problem for a while now. It started with my Merkel 470. I thought it was to much gun but It was not. It was nerve damage caused by ignoring carpual tunnel and tendennitis in my right hand. I worked on LOP etc and got some relief. When it started happening with my 16 ga double I went to the DR.

I had a opperation on both wrist and was better for a while, I could shoot my double with out pain. It started coming back and the tendenitis got worse. My merkel would slide in my hand again.

I had orderd a ph action in 505. Even though I was not sure I would be able to shoot it I built it any way. To my surprise I did not have proplems with it.

At the last shoot and hoot I shot a full house 600 gr load in a 500 Nitro (A Ca. Rigby). I had no problems again, and it was a pleasre to shoot. Both grips were larger in dia than my Merkel and had palm swells.

I picked up a Chapruis in 470 , I slides a little but not enough to cause pain, the grip could be a hair fatter.

Gun fit, but more importantly hand strength and the ability to close your hand tight enough around the grip is what allows you to hang on. If your hands are healthy you can make them stronger, If you have nerve damage it does not mamater how strong you are, your grip will fail at some point.

If you are haveing numbness or weakness in your hand have it looked at!!!!


JD

JD,

That really makes a lot of sense. It seems grip strength is everything as long as the gun is made propperly and fits reasonably well.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:
I use to have the same problem until I started squeezing a tennis ball and made a conscious effort to grip the double tighter. Don’t have a problem anymore. But we’ll see if it creeps back up when I receive my 577 I have on order.

Mac

Sounds like a good plan for those having trouble. Thanks.

Brett

Gentlemen I have seen lots of guys who got banged in the middle finger when the double was chambered for a sharp recoil. At first I thought the happening was more prevelent with the sharp recoil. I find now that it is a combination of things.

I have found, over the years, that it is mostly fit of the pistol grip to the shooter's hand, along with a too soft recoil pad.

I find the exact opposite of 470Evans. I find the not necessarily fat fingers, but short fingers seems to avoid the trigger guard "BITE" because it forces the shooter to reach hard for the front trigger, causeing him to push the middle finger hard against the back of the trigger guard. This finger already in hard contact with the back of the guard has a tendency to move with the guard under recoil, rather that haveing the trigger guard coming back to "HIT" the middle finger.

I truley believe it is a combination of how tight the grip is, the shape of the trigger guard, the softness of the recoil pad, the shooter not pressing his middle finger tight against the back of the trigger guard, and a tight grip on the grip, so the trigger guard cannot jump back into the finger.

I shoot the same rifle JD had the problem with, but I have no such problem. I think because I push my middle finger up tight against the back of the trigger guard, and my fingers are not fat but are fairly short that I suppose forced me to have to reach for the front trigger. The only place it seems to get me on occasion is with a very quick snap shot, not letting me get a proper hold on the grip. If the guard is already against the middle firner when the trigger is pulled it can't jump to your finger.

Some guys seem to have a real porblem with this, but only very rarely for me, and that is not limited to just one or two double rifles. I have shot probably over 100 different double rifles in my life, and it simply doesn't seem to be a problem for me, but I believe it is simply the way I hold the rifle, nothing more.

Gents:
I feel it is a less than tight grip on the stock.
Brett: You can shoot my 4 as much as you like. Bring your FFg as you will only get 16 shots to the pound.
Mike: Bring some of the rubber guards when you touch off that new .600 single of yours that weighs only 11 pounds. With 160 grains of 4831 and a 900-grain slug you will get a good thump.
Cheers,
Cal

While no doubt all of the things mentioned above can be a factor, I think 465 has a good thought.

I think some people might be griping hard enough, but are relaxing their grip too quick after firing.

Either as a reaction to recoil or maybe trying to shift to the second trigger a little too quick, or to "work the action", be it a bolt or a top lever.

The reason one gun might bang your finger and another not is because of the demensional differences between the tow guns as mentioned in the above posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Guess I "dumped" that Searcy at the right time!!!!!

By the time I shoot 20-30 each out of 3 different 450's my grip might be getting a tad loose. I can grip lower on the Searcy's PG and not have the soreness. I haven't gotten out to see if Kebco's 'rubber baby buggy bumopers' will help alot.
I will have one on the 600 when it hits the range soon.

I was having middle finger bash until I learned how to grip a double. Don't massage the fore end grip it! Once I started doing that all of my middle finger episodes disappeared.

Most importantly don't try and pinch a splinter forend. Wrap your finger around the barrel using the splinter as a palm swell.

I agree with Mac, I think it is mainly a misfit of the shooter's hand to the pistol grip area.

If you have small hands, in order to reach the front trigger your hand is 'rotated' forward and the meat of your palm is not quite directly behind the pistol grip part of the stock. No problem with a 30-06. Add a bit or recoil, a loose grip, and a wide trigger guard and it can be another story.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Don't massage the fore end grip it! Once I started doing that all of my middle finger episodes disappeared.

Most importantly don't try and pinch a splinter forend. Wrap your finger around the barrel using the splinter as a palm swell.

Amen!!!

Brett

I also agree that a thick and too soft of a recoil pad does't help. Some times it seems that the merkel gets a running staart at me.

JD